The Magic Pill? | Incident Report 159

The Magic Pill? | Incident Report 159

November 1, 2019 93 By William Morgan


– [Logan] We’re live.
– We are live, what’s up, Z-Pac?
It’s your boy ZDoggMD,
and we’re live and direct
outta Studio-Z with my boy, Logan and Tom.
– What’s up?
Yo, they canceled
Roseanne for being racist.
– What, they did, the new one?
– Mm-hm, it’s canceled now, yep.
– What?
– Roseanne was racist?
– Yeah, she called somebody
like a monkey or something
on Twitter.
– What, she called a
white person a monkey?
– Think she was black, which
is why it’s pretty racist.
– That’s not okay.
Anyway, so speaking of not okay,
we are deluged these
days with dietary fads,
new diets, people saying,
“This is the thing
“that’s gonna cure everything.”
we did a video about a documentary
called What The Health,
which purported that a vegan
diet could cure everything
and was the only way for humans to eat
that was first of all ethical
and also healthy and also cured everything
from chubbiness to cancer to AIDS.
Well, it turns out that documentary
was a steaming piece of
crap, and we called it that.
We have nothing here at ZDogg Industries
against a vegan diet.
It can be an incredibly
healthy and powerful way
to eat, and there’s some evidence
that it can reverse
coronary artery disease
in certain studies, Dean Ornish et al.
See those.
However, the counter
diet fad and documentary
is The Magic Pill now out on Netflix.
Many people have asked
me to comment on this.
It is about the ketogenic diet.
So this is a diet that is
different from vegan diets
to the extent that it focuses on high fat
and low carbohydrate,
whereas vegan diets tend
to by their definition
be higher in carbohydrates
because a lot of vegetable
matter, beans, et cetera,
high in carbohydrates.
You can actually do a ketogenic diet
that is actually vegan as
well, but it’s kind of hard.
So, what is The Magic Pill?
It’s a documentary that talks
about the ketogenic diet
curing everything.
Now, we were gonna do a video
where a real doctor watches The Magic Pill
and take a crap on it.
Then Tom actually watched the video,
and I skimmed through it, and I realized,
wait, they actually did
a lot of things right
in the documentary that
What The Health did wrong.
First of all, they said
all of this is based on
basically anecdote and conjecture,
the studies can be looked
at many different ways.
Here’s one look at how to look at this.
And so they couch it already by saying,
look, this isn’t 100% science,
this is another way to eat.
Is that right, Tom, is that
how you interpreted it?
– I mean the What The Health thing,
they were making big, bold claims,
this one, at the very front,
they say, listen, this is mainly anecdote.
And they do make some big,
bold claims in the documentary.
Some of the claims are, for instance,
they say that the ketogenic
diet in the documentary
can help cure, or it’s
looking very promising,
that it can cure children
with severe autism,
and they show some images of
non-verbal autistic children
who suddenly are able to verbalize
after they’ve been on the ketogenic diet.
And I’ve also hear that this can be good
for children with epilepsy, do
you know anything about this?
– Okay, so, you know,
the documentary aside,
let’s back up and see
what a ketogenic diet is.
Yes, it was initially
sort of used in children
with intractable seizures,
certain types of seizures,
to good effect.
So something about the brain
using predominantly ketones
for fuel, which by the way it’s
a myth that the brain needs,
can only run on glucose, it
can actually run on a ketone,
which is beta-hydroxybutyrate
as well, at least partially.
And so this idea that it
helps kids with seizures
was an early discovery,
in the early 20th century.
Now let’s back and say, what is this diet,
and how should we be eating?
Is this a magic pill like the
documentary title suggests,
which is a clickbait title,
just like What The Health
was a clickbait title,
clickbait documentary.
How should we be eating?
So, a ketogenic diet works like this,
and it’s not a very complicated principle,
but you do have to understand a little bit
of biochemistry to really get it.
When human beings eat mostly fat,
get most of their calories from fat,
and each gram of fat is
nine calories, alright?
The way the the body metabolizes that
is it’ll break down the
fat into free fatty acids
and into ketone bodies, and
there are two types of those,
we don’t need to go
into the details of it,
and then cells can actually
use those ketone bodies
for fuel, so directly
getting fuel from fat,
as opposed to the way
that most Americans eat,
which is a very carbohydrate based diet
where you’re using glucose
predominantly directly
for fuel, blood glucose
that you’re ingesting
in the form of carbohydrates.
So when you switch your
macronutrient intake,
in other words, instead of
taking in a lot of carbohydrates
and a lot of protein and a little fat,
you go to a lot of fat,
moderate amounts of protein,
and very few carbohydrates,
like less than 50 grams or 20 grams a day,
which is really hard to do.
Your body starts to shift to,
instead of relying on
glucose in the diet for fuel,
it relies on fat.
It then creates these ketone bodies,
that’s where the term
ketogenic diet comes from,
so the blood levels of
these ketones start to rise.
You can test this by
peeing on a ketone strip
that’ll turn black if you have
a certain level of ketones
in your blood,
or you can do a finger stick,
very similar to diabetics
checking glucose,
with special ketone strips
that work in a regular glucometer as well,
they’re more expensive,
and you can check your blood
hydroxybutyrate levels,
that’s one of the ketones,
and that’s a more accurate measure.
Now, these ketones, when
we talk about diabetics,
when we talk about things like that,
we talk about ketosis being terrible,
oh, he came in in diabetic ketoacidosis,
well it turns out, that type
of ketosis is very different.
In that type of ketosis,
the body makes no insulin,
no effective insulin,
and as a result, it cannot
use circulating blood glucose,
so it turns to burning
fat as a way to generate
its fuel needs.
The problem is it’s
unregulated fat burning,
so you end up getting high
levels of these keto acids,
and it causes the blood
to actually get acidic,
your blood pH to drop, and
terrible, terrible, terrible
metabolic derangements to happen
that get you hospitalized
and can be fatal.
You cannot do this from a ketogenic diet,
assuming you’re not a diabetic.
You cannot do this from a ketogenic diet.
So having ketone bodies
from ketosis from a diet
is not the same as diabetic ketoacidosis,
so let’s get that out of the way.
So why do people say
this diet is a better way
to lose weight, to eat, and
to fight metabolic disease
like cancer, diabetes, et cetera?
Well, the theory that
they propose is that,
insulin is a problem,
so when humans started shifting to eating
more carbohydrates, and
there’s controversy about this,
the paleo people will say,
well cavemen ate mostly meat,
and fat, and berries that
were low in carbohydrates,
and therefore they were the original,
sort of, you know, low-carb guys,
but there’s debate because a lot of them
ate nuts and acorns that
have a lot of carbohydrates,
so it’s unclear what our
ancestors actually ate.
That aside, insulin, which
is secreted in response
to carbohydrates in the
diet including sugar,
including complex carbohydrates,
in itself as a hormone
can cause problems at high concentrations.
It can cause resistance to insulin
where the tissues become resistant,
and you have to get higher
and higher levels of insulin,
and that’s a problem
because insulin itself
is a growth hormone.
It can cause tissue growth,
there’s a debate as to
whether it causes plaque
and atherosclerosis in blood vessels,
and whether it promotes
the development of tumors,
cancerous tumors.
It also has bad metabolic effects.
So the proposal is,
with the ketogenic diet,
is that you actually lower
circulating levels of insulin
because you’re relying more on fat,
there’s less sugar and
carbohydrates that you’re eating,
so your insulin levels are suppressed,
which allows you now to
burn fat that’s also,
you have effectively
unlimited stores of, right,
whereas you only have a
limited amount of glucose
in storage in the form of liver glycogen,
muscle glycogen, that you can
burn through really quickly.
Here’s a good example,
if you have something sugary,
and then you go and do,
try to run a marathon,
you’ll hit what they call
the wall in just a few miles,
where suddenly you feel
like you’re so hungry,
and you’re dying because
your blood sugar has crashed,
because you’ve burned
through your glycogen,
you’ve secreted insulin,
you’ve put all the sugar in your cells,
and now you’re trying to pull it out,
whereas on a ketogenic diet,
your actual glucose levels
stay a little more constant
because you’re not getting
these swings in insulin.
So the theory is that
insulin is a problem,
by limiting insulin,
changing our metabolism
to focusing on fat burning,
it’s more beneficial
for weight loss and for metabolic health,
preventing diabetes, preventing cancer,
and other metabolic illnesses.
Now, Tom, what did the documentary say
about this in general?
– Listen, you threw a lot
of science at me there, Z.
And what I’m looking
for, as a regular person,
is just for you to sort
of confirm my biases,
because I’m on the
ketogenic diet right now,
and I feel great,
so tell me that it cures
all the cancers, please.
– Alright, let’s back it
up and talk about that,
let’s go straight Muggle,
and you and me talking about this diet.
I did this diet, the ketogenic diet,
high fat and low carbohydrates,
for eight months,
and this, I transitioned from
doing intermittent fasting
to the ketogenic diet.
I lost about 10 or 15 pounds,
which for me, I weigh
at baseline about 150,
and I’m about 5’5″, so I’m a short guy,
I’m not a big guy, that’s a lot of weight.
I got a six-pack for a minute,
I lost a ton of body fat,
and I felt generally pretty good.
Downsides.
My LDL cholesterol went from around 80,
which was good, to about
170, which was not good.
So I happen to be one of
those hyper-responders
where my lipid levels did not like
the high amounts of saturated
fat that I was eating.
Now when I switched from saturated fat
to monounsaturated fat, like
olive oil, avocados, nuts,
the LDL dropped, so that
shouldn’t be an endpoint problem
with a ketogenic diet.
In other words, your lipids,
most people, lipids
actually might get better
on a high fat diet,
assuming you’re picking
the right types of fats,
and your genetics are
appropriate for this,
because there’s no one size fits all.
So the other problem with that diet
was I couldn’t sustain it
because I couldn’t eat with my family,
they’re big carbo, they’re carboholics,
but they’re super thin,
they have good genetics
where they can just
eat whatever they want,
and it was starting to drive me crazy,
so it wasn’t a sustainable pattern for me,
and I worried about my lipids,
and so as a result, I switched
to a more Mediterranean diet.
Now, here’s the truth.
The ketogenic diet can
work wonders for people,
particularly with a tendency
to metabolic syndromes
like diabetes, and it can
work really, really great,
and I highly advocate it for
people who it’s a fit for,
which means you gotta
do some trial and error,
talk to your doctor, make sure it’s a fit,
and give it a shot.
If it works for you, wonderful.
However, a vegan diet
might work equally well,
or it might only work for you
with your type of genetics.
Or any other number of diets
that have these things in common.
What is magical about the ketogenic diet,
what is magical about a vegan diet,
what is magical about diets
that work and are sustainable
like the Mediterranean diet?
Number one, there is
very little refined sugar
in these diets.
There just isn’t.
Refined sugar by all sort of estimations
seems to be, for most people, a toxin.
It makes you hungrier,
by secreting, causing insulin secretion,
fructose itself is mostly
processed in the liver,
like a toxin.
And I don’t use the word toxin lightly,
because it’s overused by Goop
and all these idiot celebrities,
it is processed like a toxin in the liver,
and high levels of it
can lead to insulin resistance problems,
obesity, and that’s partially, I think,
the reason why we have an obesity epidemic
is we shifted from a
reasonably high fat diet
to a reasonably high carbohydrate diet,
particularly refined sugars
in the form of sodas,
and things like that, and
that’s been a problem.
So what do these diets have in common?
Low refined sugars, real whole foods.
The one major thing that happened
when I went to a ketogenic diet
is I started shopping in the stores
with a deep understanding
of getting real food
that wasn’t processed,
because all the processed food
had high levels of sugar and crap in them
that wasn’t compatible
with a ketogenic diet.
In that sense, the magical answer is,
eat real food, don’t get
a bunch of refined sugar,
and understand nutrition,
know what’s in your food.
Understand that a can of Campbell’s soup
may have a bunch of sugar added,
it may have a bunch of salt added,
and it is not necessarily,
say, a healthy thing,
it’s a processed food.
Understand that a grass-fed steak
may actually be healthier,
particularly if you’re not
charring the heck out of it
on a grill and creating a
bunch of potential carcinogens,
but even that we don’t understand about,
but a real piece of meat
is probably healthier
than going to McDonald’s
and having a processed
meat where they’ve added
potentially fructose, and a bunch of salt,
and a bun that’s refined white bread,
that’s absorbed the same way sugar is
and produces an insulin spike.
So the bottom line is,
no, there’s no magic pill,
but there’s a magic way to eat,
which is real food, not
a lot of processing,
not a lot of sugar added,
and that spans everything
from vegan to ketogenic.
– I have to mildly push back on you
and the word refined sugar
because people use this
to mean only white sugar,
as if something like agave
nectar is not a refined sugar,
or turbinado, or any of these,
quote unquote, “healthy sugars”,
you know what I mean?
They’re the same as corn syrup,
they’re the same as white sugar.
All sugar is sugar.
– Let’s talk about that.
That’s actually a great
point, Tom, thank you, so,
sugar is mostly sugar.
So honey, which is fructose and sucrose,
pure table sugar, which is mostly sucrose,
drinking glucose, like
the glucola they give you
for pregnancy challenging
for oral glucose tests,
these all end up in the body
mostly being transformed
into an insulin spike in sugar.
Now the difference is with agave nectar,
which is mostly fructose,
since it’s processed as
a toxin in the liver,
it actually doesn’t lead to
an immediate insulin spike,
but there’s a lot of evidence,
see Bob Lustig, et al,
that it actually leads
to a lot of metabolic derangements,
potential fatty liver,
and potentially diabetes,
insulin resistance, et cetera.
So sugar of any kind,
especially added sugar, is not great.
Now fructose is the predominant
fruit sugar in fruit.
Is it bad for you, if it’s a toxin?
Well, when god creates a poison,
he wraps it in the antidote naturally.
So a fruit is full of fibrous matrix,
which slows the absorption, which means,
and this is why vegans really love fruits,
because it’s actually
absorbed very slowly,
so you don’t get these spikes in insulin,
you don’t overwhelm the
liver’s processing ability
for fructose, and you get the benefits
of the vitamins, nutrients, and minerals
that were in the natural fruit.
Now what happens when people grind it up
and juice it into a paste?
You release all the
fructose from its matrix,
and that is not good.
That is going to lead to an
insulin spike in most people,
and that may not be healthy.
Some people in the comments are talking
about the metabolic effects
of the ketogenic diet,
meaning, the effect on tumors and things.
So the theory being
that high insulin levels
can be tumorigenic, they can
promote the growth of tumors.
Again, the jury is still out,
we need more information,
but eating a balanced, whole food diet,
without a lot of processing,
without a lot of sugar in it,
is probably going to be a good thing
from a cancer standpoint from all the,
at least the anecdotal
evidence we have so far.
– The other point I want
you to expand on, Z,
is the no one size fits all
because now the diet has
become the new religion,
and vegans use it as moral movement
to galvanize people.
They will say things like,
“How can it be that there
are many different diets
“for all different kinds of people
“when animals, look at animals,
“they all eat the same thing?”
And it’s like, you idiots don’t realize
that we all evolved in
different geographic regions
of the world, or what,
because I’m confused.
– But let’s understand that
food has cultural significance,
it has religious significance,
it has personal significance.
There’s a lot of emotional
energy tied up with food.
This is why anything
we talk about with food
will get a bunch of angry comments,
and a bunch of comments that are like,
“Thank you, this is the word of god.”
Because it’s such a deep cultural thing.
If you look at cultures that
have high carbohydrate intake,
the Japanese with rice,
certain parts of the Mediterranean,
they still do really well.
So telling people cut all the carbs
is probably not the answer.
It’s about a balanced sort of diet,
and I think there are universal
principles around that.
There is no one size fits
all for every genetics.
Like, for example, the ketogenic diet,
probably wouldn’t work for me
because I small atherogenic
particles of LDL.
Now, I had no signs of inflammation,
so one of the theories
around the ketogenic diet
is that it reduces inflammation
because you’re not taking in high amounts
of fructose and sugar,
and other sort of wheat-based products.
Now again, the jury’s still out on this.
Books like Wheat Belly and Grain Brain,
it’s still not clear
that those are accurate
in terms of wheat causing inflammation.
Nobody really knows,
and it may be different
for me than it is for you.
That’s why trial and error,
eventually when our science gets better,
we can look at your genetics
and other things and say,
by the way, right now one of
the biggest scams out there
is people saying that they’ll
be able to test your genetics
and tell you what you should eat,
or what you’re allergic to.
That is, so far, complete nonsense, right?
Consumer genetic testing has its place,
and we’ve done shows on it,
but you’re not sophisticated enough yet
to be able to do that.
So there is yet no one size fits all.
Anyone who tells you is
trying to sell you something,
or they have a religious belief,
religious meaning some
deep, elephant-based belief
around how to eat, and
you’re going against it.
– Jeanine says, “So a fresh fruit smoothie
“is not good for me?”
This is one the biggest
lies in the culture
is, like, that people, when
they have that big glass
of orange juice in the morning,
they think they’re like
really doing their body good,
you know, like I’m being healthy.
I might have two glasses of orange juice.
It’s like, you might as
well drink a Coca-Cola,
you know what I mean?
– Exactly, and again, I’m gonna back down
from that a little and say,
look, if you want a fresh fruit smoothie
once in a while, that’s wonderful.
You’ll get the vitamins,
you’ll get the minerals out of it,
but you will also get a big dose of sugar.
And if you’re using it as a detox,
which by the way is not a thing,
if you’re using it as a
detox from a bad diet,
no, all you’re doing is
adding sugar to injury.
If you’re using it as
part of a balanced diet,
more power to you,
and it’s a way to get some fruit intake
and vitamins, again,
especially for people who, our,
our Western diet is sort of so deficient
in particular vitamins
that it’s good to be able to have that
almost as a supplement.
But really just eating
a balanced food diet
is probably enough. Now
the other piece of that is,
again, a lot of the
commercial juicing places
add a ton of sugar, and
that makes it worse.
Now someone asked a question,
“What about exogenous ketones?”
So there are people who
sell packaged ketones
that you could take.
Well, the jury’s really out on that
because if you’re not
eating a balanced diet
and taking in ketones,
yeah, you’ll burn them,
by the way, they taste like jet fuel,
you’ll burn them,
but what is that really doing for you,
unless it’s part of a
broader strategy you have,
working with a dietician or a doctor,
to do something interesting,
like my friend Dr. Peter
Attia does with people,
and he’s tried those,
and he said they basically
taste like jet fuel.
– Z, let’s end on this one.
This, for a regular
person, is very confusing
because you’re always
hearing different stuff
from the medical establishment,
you’re hearing eggs are bad for you,
then you’re hearing the
yolk is bad for you,
then you’re hearing eggs are good for you,
then you’re hearing don’t eat bacon,
then you’re hearing do eat bacon.
What, how do regular people parse this?
What are they supposed to do,
how do you find a diet that works for you
when all information
seems to be conflicting
and nobody seems to have the
right answer at the moment?
– I think step one is stop
watching the news about diet
because anything you see
on the news is suspect
because it’s all correlation
and not causation.
We still do not have good ways
to study nutritional effects
in humans long term, period.
If you see a study shows some correlation,
that’s just what it is, a correlation.
People who eat a bunch of
fruit may happen to have
an overall healthy lifestyle,
or have a genetic
predisposition to living longer
and liking fruit.
We have no idea that
fruit is causal in that.
So the bottom line is this,
eat food, not too much, mostly plants.
I would actually advocate
and say actually say
mostly whole, natural food,
that’s unprocessed, without added sugar.
Try to avoid like a lot of white breads
and easily absorbed carbs like that.
And just enjoy the food.
That’s another key thing is
you need to enjoy your diet,
or else it’s gonna be unsustainable.
Those are the main things
that I would advocate,
and whether it’s a ketogenic diet,
whether it’s a vegan diet,
whether it’s a Mediterranean diet,
which is what I eat currently,
and when I fall off the wagon,
I gain weight really fast,
and it’s usually when I eat ice cream
and processed food, and
sugar, and go out to eat a lot
because you don’t know what’s
in your food, it’s tough.
So that’s my take-home, guys,
I don’t know, what do
you think, Tom Hinueber?
– You heard it here, guys,
everything that’s white is negative.
White bread, white sugar,
white people, white privilege.
– I hate you so much, Tom Hinueber.
– [Tom] Snow, water chestnuts.
– Actually, you know what,
you should do a diet book called
I Ate You So Much, Tom Hinueber,
The Tom Hinueber Approach to Eating.
(laughing)
– It’d be like, step one,
get your McFlurry on, people,
because they’re delicious.
– Step two, toppings for the McFlurry.
I prefer Reese’s peanut butter cups,
just broken and put on top.
– When they used to
have the Rolo McFlurry,
that was the best
McFlurry, I’m just saying.
– They had a Rolo McFlurry?
– Oh, it was amazing, yeah.
Go in there, get a Rolo McFlurry, McRib,
pinnacle of a healthy diet, people.
– I love all that stuff so
much, by the way that’s,
– By the way, this is
how my food pyramid goes,
Rolo McFlurry
– A great take-home point.
– McRib, vegetables, fruits.
(laughing)
– Take-home point, sugar is addictive.
The way the McRib is set up,
the way these McFlurrys are,
is we evolved to crave sugar and sweet
because it was so rare in nature,
and if you found it, the
goal was eat as much of it
as you can to store it up.
Unfortunately in our current society
that’s a maladaptive evolutionary drive.
So we get a little burst of dopamine
when we eat something sweet,
and believe me the processed food guys
are designing the food in a way
to trigger that in you,
so if you don’t want to be
manipulated by Big Food,
eat real food, not too much,
and enjoy it immensely.
We out.