Ketofast: Your Need-to-Know Guide – Part 1 with Dr. Joseph Mercola – #588

Ketofast: Your Need-to-Know Guide – Part 1 with Dr. Joseph Mercola – #588

August 6, 2019 24 By William Morgan


(upbeat music) – [Narrator] Bulletproof Radio. The state of high performance. – [Dave] You’re listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today’s cool fact of the day is that a genetic scorecard now could predict your risk of being obese. Researchers looked at
more than 2.1 million genetics variants and created
a genetic predisposition score that they think predicts whether you’re likely to be severely obese, and in their study they
showed that weight differences came up as early as age
three, and by age 18, if you had the highest genetic score you weighed about 29
pounds more on average than those with the low scores, and if you had the highest score, you were also 25 times more likely to have severe obesity, and high scores were sadly associated with what you’d expect. Increased risk of heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure and stroke, and a bunch of other
people said yeah right. That doesn’t really matter, because you didn’t account for lifestyle. For instance, maybe those genetic things are just your predisposition
for french fries and gluten. Anyhow, what we’ve all learned
from the world of biohacking is that the environment around you turns those genes on and off, and there’s some genes the
environment won’t affect, because whether they’re on or
off they do a certain thing, but for the most part you
can change all that stuff and take it from me, going from 300 pound to about 200 pounds depending on how much
muscle I have at the time, I think you can overcome
those genetic things. You just have to find
out what works for you. It won’t be the same thing
that works for everyone, but there’s some basic
rules you can follow. Now today’s guest is a guy who runs the most popular and powerful
online health site there is. He’s been doing it since 1997. He’s inspired many millions of people to look at the way they
manage their lives, to look at their health, to pay attention to many of the things that we now take for granted in the world of functional medicine. He’s an osteopathic physician, and just realized we
can improve ourselves, and has been fearless in
talking about what works. I’m talking about none other
than Dr. Joseph Mercola of famed Mercola.com fame. He’s a dear friend and just a great guy. Dr. Mercola, welcome to the show. – [Joseph] Hey, it’s so great
to be with you today Dave. – [Dave] I’m recording this
episode with Dr. Mercola because he just finished speaking at the sixth annual Biohacking Conference and the conference is something that I started in San
Francisco with 100 people. We had more than 1,000 people
this year at the conference talking about stuff that works in the body and Dr. Mercola just
completely rocked the audience, by talking about some of the things that you’ve heard on the show. Things like hydrogen, things like EMFs, and other stuff like fasting and ketosis, and things that you may know if you’re a long time listener, and if not Dr. Mercola’s
a world renowned expert on this stuff and we’re
gonna go deep today. Super happy you’re back on the show even though you’re just off stage. – [Joseph] Well, I want
to thank you so much for having me at the event. It was literally the best event I ever attended in my entire life. – [Dave] Wow! – [Joseph] Without any question. Nothing came close. It was like putting 10
Christmases in one weekend. Literally. Even that is an understatement. Literally, it changed
my life in many ways. I mean one of the biggest
is I met Dr. Barry. Dr. Barry Morguelan, and then I’m actually
committing to his program because of you. – [Dave] Wow! Joe, that makes me so happy. I love it that you’re gonna try it Joe. I’ve had results from that that I cannot explain using medicine, but there’s something
going on there that’s real. You just wrote a book called KetoFast, where you talk about ketogenic stuff and also timing. There’s this idea of maybe you
don’t want to eat after dark. We’ve had Satchin Panda on the show, but you put together a book based on your knowledge as a physician, and your deep research for decades, and we start with what did you learn from writing KetoFast? – [Joseph] Well, my first book. Not my first book. I think I’ve written a dozen now, but the previous book on this topic was Fat for Fuel, which describes the program to obtain metabolic flexibility and help teach your body to start reburning fat for fuel. Most of your listeners are
probably there already, but clearly about 85% of
the U.S. population is not. So it was somewhat targeted
for the general population. After finishing that, and I wrote that. It was catalyzed by my journey, in seeking to finally understand and integrate this in my own life, but then I was fascinated
with the benefits of multiple day water fasting, and at the time before I
committed to writing the book, or when I committed to it, I thought that I would
write the book about, how to implement successfully, a multiple day water fast. Typically, five days, because I had done it three or four times before I did the book, and I thought this was
really important to do, and what I realized
after doing the research, is that it was probably
not a good strategy for almost everyone. For a number of reasons. Well there is a number of
reasons why it is beneficial and has been beneficial historically, for many many centuries. It’s probably from time memorial, it’s a crucial part of nearly every major religion on the planet. For spiritual reasons, but also for health reasons, and you’ve got to know
that practices like that would not persist, unless there
was some benefit for them. There clearly is a benefit to doing this but what I realized is that
we live in the 20th century, and in the 20th century. 21st century, sorry. We used to live in that. We live in the 21st century. In the 20th century, and certainly extending to 21st, there was the development
of all these toxins. Industrial chemicals. At least 80,000 and more. Many of them have never
been studied for toxicity, let alone synergistic toxicity, from having combinations of these things, and most of these
chemicals are fat soluble, which means they eventually
get stored in your fat cells and when you’re doing a
multiple day water fast, you are liberating these toxic chemicals, and that’s all well and good, unless you have too many of them, and your detoxification systems, aren’t up to the
challenge of biochemically modifying those toxins, so that they can be essentially changed, and eliminated and
excreted from your body. When you do this multiple day water fast, I think you’re getting too many, because of the toxic
exposures that we now have, and you also don’t have the fuel, and the nutrients you need for your liver to properly process them, which is why I think keto
fast, or partial fast, which is a hybrid of a
few different systems. Krista Varady’s alternate day fast. She’s a professor at the
University of Illinois. Maybe Associate Professor, and then Michael Mosley. He did his thing to the five two, but it was also Valter Longo’s work on the fasting mimicking diet. So I hybridized those together to a program that I
thought is relatively easy and simple to understand and follow and yet reap the most important benefits that you would achieve by
multiple day water fasting. – [Dave] I love your mindset, and we both think that way. It has to be something
you’re gonna actually do, because if it requires you to go to the top of the Himalayas, and stand on one leg while you do it, the friction to get
there isn’t gonna happen, so the pragmatic approach to
getting most of the benefits but experiencing way less of
the disruption in your life and the pain, that’s the holy grail for people who actually
have things we wanna do. Walk me through how you
do this multiple day variant on water fasts, and I want to share with
you and with listeners what I’ve been doing, and let’s talk about the pros and cons of these different things. – [Joseph] Okay, well I can say, it’s a variant of the
fasting mimicking diet, which is 1,000 calories the first day, and about 700 calories the next four days. It’s a little bit different than that, and it’s basically you’re
using your own food, so it’s a lot less expensive
than a $600 program, but the way that you do it, is you first have to become
metabolically flexible, and most people listening probably are, but if you aren’t, then the single most important strategy, and the one that I emphasize
in every lecture I give now is to compress your eating
window to six to eight hours and what I’ve realized, actually, as I was doing my own keto fast
question and answer session was that we sleep for
eight hours a day, right? Except for you, six and a half hours, with your massively
improved stem cell makeover, you’ve able to do that, but most of us, most every other mortal humans are sleeping for eight hours, if they want to get
their maximum benefits. Why shouldn’t we just eat for eight hours, and 16 hours put at rest? I tend to go a little bit longer. Only eat in a six hour window, but maybe its eight hours. So six to eight hours is the window, and once you’re doing that, you really get just doing that and not even paying attention
to the quality of the food is going to provide you
with enormous benefits but if you’re doing that, you’re gonna become
metabolically flexible, unless you’re seriously
metabolically impaired. Two, three hundred pounds over weight, or maybe even 100, but then it’s going to
take a little longer, and the way you know you’re flexible, is that you can look at your ketones, and the most accurate way is
measuring them in your blood and when you’re able to
generate physiologically useful levels of ketone, which is usually about
0.3 or.5 millimoles, then you know you’re flexible, and then you can do this. What is the program? – [Dave] By the way, before I get into the program, some people might now know what that 0.3 to 0.5 is,
and the significance. I’m gonna walk through that real quick. Most of the keto bro kind of culture is my ketones are higher than yours. I got them up to 3.5 or whatever, which is sort of like
saying my blood glucose is higher than yours. The fact that you have
all these energy molecules floating around that your body didn’t suck into your cells, might mean that you have a problem, but .3 to .5 is not considered nutritional ketosis by most people, but it has these massive effects on hunger hormones, and it has these other effects on your satiety hormones, and there’s a couple different studies, that are in both my books. I think you also have the same
research in your last book if I remember right, but that’s a magic number and you can get there
via a variety of ways. Given that context, this
is low grade ketosis. This isn’t like the monster ketosis, that some people. – [Joseph] No, no. It doesn’t have to be, and that’s a very good point
that you bring up Dave, because there are some
challenges with that and as you become more
metabolically efficient, your tissues indeed are able
to utilize those ketones, so you suck them up and
they’re not floating around in your blood, so actually
your blood ketones, will have lower levels, and it doesn’t necessarily
mean it’s worse. I mean it’s very very hard for me to get my ketones over three. I mean I have to fast
for many days to do that. I mean I typically don’t
fast for more than a day. The keto fast which I’m about to describe, but even when I take 50 grams
of exogenous ketone esters it’s hardly. – [Dave] Stuff that tastes
like gasoline, right? – [Joseph] Yeah, so anyway. You’re metabolically flexible, as determined by blood
ketone levels 0.3 to 0.5. So you’ve got this
restricted eating window. In my case it’s 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM. Maybe it’s 10:00 to 4:00, 10:00 to 5:00. It’s in that range. You’ve done it. You’ve been doing this for
a month and you wake up and then you get to 9:00 in the morning. Whatever eating time is, and you would normally
eat your regular meal. Instead of eating regular meal, you’d have a very small meal. It’s usually between 300 to 500 calories, based on your lean body mass, which is about 3.5 times
your lean body mass, and those calories are
very specific calories. I think this is the key. First of all, there’s low carbohydrates. Very low carbohydrates, that inhibit. So less than 10 grams. Essentially none almost, and then the fats actually low too, but it’s only low because you
want to keep the calories low because high calories
will inhibit autophagy, so the bulk of the
calories though by volume certainly is protein, but it’s a very specific type of protein. It maybe 30, 40 or
maybe even a little more grams of protein which
is quite significant, but I think it’s useful, because it’s gonna give the fuel that your liver primarily requires to facilitate the detoxification process, but the proteins are really low levels of branch chain amino acids, and a good example of that
would be collagen protein or bone broth, which has mostly glycine, proline, hydroxyproline. Very low branch chains. It’s almost ideal form. I use fermented chlorella, which doesn’t have the glycine, but it still is low in the branch chains, and we have a vegan protein
powder that I use also which is also very low on branch chain. I have like 40 grams at that one meal, and that’s the meal for the day, and then you don’t eat for 24 hours. Essentially, the next day you wake up, and by the time you eat the next meal, you’ll be at least 42 hours, where you only had 300 to 500 calories, and a number of things will occur in that that are physiologically significant. One is that you will
maximally activate autophagy. Maybe not maximally, but close to the max. Might be 80%, 85%, because you’ll probably get more on multiple day water fasts, but not significantly more, especially considering the downside. A few other things will happen. Typically you’ll lose weight. I lose about four pounds of weight, every time I do it. Most all of it is water, because you’re depleting
your glycogen stores, and your glycogen requires
water to be stored. When you’re burning it, you’re gonna urinate the water out and you’re gonna lose weight, so it’s not lean muscle
mass you’re losing. It’s primarily water, but then you’ll also have increased, radically increased your
growth hormone levels by 200% to 300% which is
a profoundly important physiological benefit that you can absolutely take advantage. – [Dave] Is that the collagen
or the fast that’s doing that? – [Joseph] No, it’s the fast. It’s the fast. That’s an artifact of fasting. There’s a lot of other good things. DPH, D plus. I can tell you about the mechanisms if you’re interested, but anyway, so your growth
hormone is elevated. It’s not typically a problem. It’s not like injecting growth hormone, because when your growth hormone is elevated from fasting, your growth hormone
receptors are inhibited so you don’t get the increase in IGF1, but you still have
elevated growth hormones, so that when you wake up in the morning, you can do a strength training workout, and you can just crush it. Absolutely crush it, in a fasted state, and then when you get home, or when you’re finished with your workout, as soon as you can, then you feast, and you activate. You can into an anabolic phase, where you have lots of
branch chain amino acids, glutamine, colostrum. Things that would really
build your tissue up and carbohydrates. Carbohydrates, healthy carbohydrates like fruit will raise your insulin levels. They’ll decrease AMPK. They’ll activate mTOR, and the branch chains
will also activate mTOR, because there’s a number of different ways you can activate mTOR, and you don’t just want
to do it with one way. Do it multiple ways, and
then you can get maximal. – [Dave] Yeah. I wrote about something. I called it either stacking mTOR, or tripling down on mTOR, because the way mTOR works. You want mTOR to build muscle tissues. This is for people listening
who haven’t heard about mTOR, you need it in order to build muscle, but if it’s chronically elevated by eating too much animal
protein all the time, you’re not gonna like what happens. It’s really bad. It should be low most of the time, and then spike, you get muscles, and then it goes back to low, and that’s what Dr.
Mercola’s talking about here. What, the three things that work to really push mTOR down. What you want to do is push it down. It’s like a spring. You load it up, you load
it up, you load it up, and then you let the
spring go and it spikes. Fasting suppresses mTOR
so it’ll spike back up. Coffee is shown in
studies to suppress mTOR and exercise does that. So what Dr. Mercola is describing here is very similar to that idea of, tripling down on your mTOR, and you do all those things, and working out in a fasted state the way you just said, it’s profound, because I would say before the workout, have some coffee. – [Joseph] Absolutely. I didn’t get to that part, but I’ll. – [Dave] Oh, you have
that in there as well, and then bam, the mTOR goes up, and yeah, you do put muscle on better, and I love you mention glutamine, but glutamine will take you
right out of ketosis, right? – [Joseph] Yeah, but you
do this after the workout. – [Dave] Exactly. You’re okay to go out of ketosis, because you just worked out. – [Joseph] All the supplements I said, glutamine, branch chain
amino acids, fruits, you don’t do those in the fasting phase. You do those after you’ve worked out, but you’re absolutely right. Coffee is so beneficial, because it’s full of polyphenols. Now healthy coffee of course, because you don’t want the toxins and the kind you promoted, free of mycotoxins and other things, but there’s other polyphenols,
like raw cacao nibs. EGCG from green tea, and I use a wild apple
that’s harvested from Europe that has even higher concentration of EGCG and other similar polyphenols, and I like the pomegranate peels. Most people know pomegranates are healthy, but the peels actually
has 90% of the polyphenols and there’s two really good ones in there. Ellagic acid and ellagitannins, and when you eat them, you microbiome converts into urolithin A which is a powerful,
powerful, mytophagy benefit. These pomegranate peel powders are some of the most profound polyphenols out there in my view. – [Dave] What’s really cool, you can get a Viome test, and NNaveen Jain was also on stage at the Bulletproof Conference, and he found that about 30% of people don’t have the bacteria in their gut to metabolize ellagic acid, which comes from pomegranates
or from raspberries, and so if you have that test, it actually tells you whether you’re going to be able to convert that, and I would imagine although
we don’t have the evidence yet, that if you take that stuff regularly, you’ll actually grow the microbiome that can do that, which is also interesting. If it was never present in your diet, why would you have
bacteria that can do it? This is one of those where
you change your gut bacteria to be healthy if you take
that stuff regularly, and I like the apple polyphenols as well. These are important things, and you bring up something that, kind of annoys me about fasting. There are some purists who say, well the lab studies on rats were done with water only. Therefore we can only
do water in our fasts. Here’s the thing, this is in
the Bulletproof diet in 2014. Something called fasting
induced adipose factor or FIAF, and your liver makes this stuff, and when you’re fasting, it says oh burn extra fat, and when you have extra carbs present it says store extra fat, and fortunately your microbiome, wants to make sure that, the walking petri dish that is you, from your gut’s perspective, it wants to make sure
that you have extra fat and that you’re not
gonna run out of energy, so it’ll amplify your FIAF levels, and what does the good
bacteria in the gut eat? The stuff that keeps you thin. It eats polyphenols. I don’t know but when I’m doing my quote “water fast”, do I want to have green tea? Do I want to have coffee? Do I want to have polyphenols, that don’t have substantial
amounts of carbohydrates or protein present? I think that there’s a
great argument for it, and I feel better and
perform better when I do it, so I love it that you’re
calling that out too, because water only
fasting isn’t necessary. It’s better to do it with tea or coffee or cacao even, than not. – [Joseph] With small amounts of protein it’s not gonna activate mTOR, so at the conclusion I reached after reading the literature, it’s really clear if you
seriously investigate this, but there’s other polyphenols too. You’ve got curcumin. You’ve got berberine. Quercetin, and there’s
probably another half a dozen I’m not thinking of right now, but here’s the thing David. This is what I figured out. Actually even after I
sent the draft of the book to the publisher, is that autophagy, and I’m pretty confident this is true, is not something you want
to activate all the time. – [Dave] No, no. – [Joseph] So I would be taking
these polyphenols nightly, like when I went to bed, when I was activating
through intermittent fast, but then I realized,
no, not a good strategy, and I’m only doing it twice a week, so I take all these polyphenols when I do the partial fast. When I really upregulate
autophagy twice a week, and I take it before I go to bed, or I’ve had 30 hours of the fast, and when I wake up, because I’m still not gonna eat for another four to five to six hours. I get two blasts of the polyphenol hit activating autophagy. – [Dave] There’s going to
be over the next 10 years this huge amount of science, that looks at which polyphenols do what and which combinations
of polyphenols do what for you based on what gut
bacteria you have present and based on what genetics you have and this is an incredibly complex data science thing to unpeel. We can only do it with big data, and with the ability to
measure all of those things. When we have enough human genomes. Enough gut bacteria genomes, and enough of this, it’s the same thing we’ve been doing for the past 80 years with amino acids. What is amino acid number one do? What does tryptophan do? What does tyrosine do? What does glutamine do? What happens if you put
two of these together? Then there it’s even more complex, because if you glue two of them together into a diora tripeptide like collagen, tripeptides in collagen
do something different than the amino acids in collagen, and you go down this
rat hole of complexity, but what you’ve done in KetoFast, and even just some of the basic principles of the Bulletproof diet, only have fat in the morning, in order to extend that
effect of that break fast, because even though you got energy, you didn’t activate any insulin. You didn’t activate any protein digestion. All those things are the very beginnings of what we’re starting to learn about this big variable
in our environment. The food is going to our body, and when someone talks
to me about calories, I just kind of want to laugh. What kind of calories? Candle wax is full of calories, but I’m pretty sure it’s
different than drinking gasoline which is also full of calories. They’re just not all the same. You can’t even think about it that way, because it’s below reader’s digest level of simplicity, of
thinking about nutrition, but your doctor still says calories. I’ll get off my soapbox. You already know this stuff. – [Joseph] No, but it’s
important to repeat it for the listeners, and
there’s no question, and I really greatly appreciate your being a leader in helping the community understand this, because not many people are teaching this, and you really, that’s what I really
value about your approach and your ability to
network with individuals who understand this at a deep level, because it’s hard to tease out. It really isn’t there, but the two other polyphenols
that are important that I forgot were
phycotine, and resveratrol. The other two. – [Dave] What about Apigenin? Is that in it for you as well? – [Joseph] Apigenin is an interesting one. It is useful. It’s hard to get in high concentrations. Phycotine you can get pretty high. You can get milligram quantities, but it’s hard to get milligram
quantities of Apigenin. I guess you can, but I haven’t found a
really good source of it, but it inhibits CD38, and CD38 is an enzyme
that’s outside your cells and is one of the biggest
extracellular consumers of NAD plus. Interestingly, you would theoretically increase NAD plus, if it worked, and that’s what Sinclair
believes and a lot of others, but here’s the cool thing. Actually, I’m reading Sinclair’s new book that comes out in a few months, and I just read this this morning because I didn’t realize the mechanism but we know that fasting
will increase your NAD plus levels by 30%, so the need for Apigenin is diminished. If you’re already increasing it by 30% why do you need to do that? You know, the mechanism is that it upregulates the
rate limiting enzyme in the salvage pathway. Essentially converting
Nicotinamide back to NAD, and that’s NANPT, that enzyme. That’s how fasting works, which is an interesting way. – [Dave] Phycotin’s available in capsules. I use it in a couple of the
formulations I’ve created and I’ve taken Phycotin
for a very long time. I think the most common source is seaweed or strawberries if I’m remembering right? – [Joseph] No, I think most of it. I thought it was called Phycotin. Yeah, but the primary source is from some Australian pine tree. I mean it’s, in food the
high source is strawberries. – [Dave] The supplements
don’t come from strawberries. – [Joseph] No, they do not. I could never find a source that wasn’t from this
Australian pine needles, but interestingly, has a very
poor absorption Phycotin, and so you know how I take my Phycotin, I was doing intrarectal Phycotin. – [Dave] You know, I’m just
gonna have to say this, Dr. Mercola, that’s gross. No, I’m kidding. Guys listen, IVs work really well. IVs require a needle going into your vein. If you take certain nutrients and you put them in, not
your mouth, the other end, with the right things, they will absorb as well
as an intravenous nutrient and it’s cheaper and less painful. Dr. Mercola is not alone in this. Do tell. Do you have a recipe? – [Joseph] Yeah, I do. I can share it with you, but the Phycotin is very
poor oral absorption. I use this same strategy. There’s two nutrients
I take transmucosally because the rectum is full of mucosa which essentially very similar absorption rates as intravenous. Not quite, but close to 80%, 90%. The other nutrient I use
is Nicotinamide riboside, and that’s my favorite NAD plus precursor. In addition to niacin which is dirt cheap and I take pretty much every day, but only 25 to 50 milligrams. A small small amount. Not certainly larger than that, because that’s about what
we normally lose per day in the salvage pathway, but Nicotinamide riboside, is actually an interesting nutrient, because it’s natural. It’s in breastmilk. This thing is not some
exogenous crazy chemical. It’s totally natural, and you interviewed Charles Brenner before who was actually at your events and I attended his presentation. I talked to Brenner after his presentation because I was trying to ask him, and he wouldn’t pick on
me for whatever reason. I courted him after the presentation and I said, listen what
do you think about, if you swallow NR orally, there’s no question about it, the vast majority of it’s gonna be methylated by your liver. That’s why the NAD plus
levels are really high in your liver after NR. Now you do get some
other systemic benefit, but I think it’s minimized because of the methylation process. I say what do you think about using it transmucosally through the rectum and he just like well I
never thought of that, or is like I don’t know. Who’s gonna do a rectal? He had no clue about it. – [Dave] For people listening, we’re talking about something the size of a pencil eraser. It’s not a horrible
uncomfortable sort of thing. – [Joseph] I’ll tell you how I do this. You buy the raw materials. There’s a number of
companies that sell NR, and Phycotin is available, so you just get it and you
put in one normal dose. An oral dose, and the way you do it, is you get a candy mold on Amazon, that’s made out of silicone, and the one I use is, I forget the name of it, but it has 66 wells, and the actual mold looks like an inverted candy Hershey’s kiss. – [Dave] I thought you were gonna say Christmas tree for a minute there. – [Joseph] No, no, Hershey’s kiss, and about the same size
as a Hershey’s kiss. Maybe a little smaller, because it doesn’t have as wide of base. It’s more of a cylinder, and it’s a candy mold actually, and you fill it up. You melt some coconut oil. In the summer, if you’re
listening to this, it won’t be an issue, because it’s usually
liquid at room temperature, but if it’s winter or cold, then you have to heat it up, and you pour it into the well, and then maybe halfway, and then you open the capsule, and put it into the well, and then you fill it up
with coconut oil again, and you fill all the wells up, and then you put it in the refrigerator. Now my time’s a little bit too valuable for me to do this. I pay someone to do that for me, and then you keep it refrigerated, and then I do it twice a day. Not the Phycotin. I only use the Phycotin
because it’s a polyphenol, during the fasting, the NR I use every day, twice a day, and do it intrarectally. The key here though, it’s a cylinder, so you would think you’d
put the pointy end in first, but you actually put
the base of it in first, otherwise it tends to pop out. – [Dave] You can also, just on Amazon, you can search for suppository mold and have little things that are designed with more of a tear drop shape. – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah,
and that’ll work too. – [Dave] I’m just for people listening, going wait a minute, are you serious? But bottom line is, if you get maybe 10 or 20 times
better absorption that way than you do from swallowing the pill, let’s talk about money. Do you want to spend 20 times more, and swallow 20 times more supplements, or do you want to be really effective on that front? – [Joseph] It’s not
even just the economics. I mean because there may be some concern about the metabolites of this stuff. We just don’t know. Especially with some of the polyphenols. Or even NR. Who knows what methylated NR is gonna do? We don’t. Studies have never been done, so we’re in new territory, but we know that NR itself, it gets into your system systemically, is really safe and highly beneficial because it will increase
your NAD plus levels and there’s lots of
studies on NAD NR benefits even not used transmucosally. – [Dave] You mix coconut oil? I’ve used cacao butter or coconut oil. – [Joseph] Yeah, either one will work. – [Dave] Then you put it in the freezer, so that’s cold enough that it solidifies and both of those. Cacao is interesting, because it melts at exactly the temperature of your body, which is why chocolate has that cool. When it’s real chocolate. Not made with wax. It has that kind of cool melt feel, and then coconut oil melts
at a lower temperature than your body, so it
has to be relatively cool otherwise the whole thing gets liquidy. I prefer cacao butter, with a little bit of coconut oil. – [Joseph] That’s a good
improvement in the system. It’s a little pricier than coconut oil, and you almost always have
to heat it to put it in there but it’s a more elegant solution. There’s no question. – [Dave] I will admit I don’t do most of my vitamins that way, but I certainly, things
like SOD and catalase, which are important for dealing with excessive free radicals after flying and things like that, I have no problem with
tranmucosal delivery systems. We’ll put it that way, but there may be some supplements where you wouldn’t want to do this, because your levels could get too high and it would be unsafe. I would just encourage anyone, who is thinking about doing this. Don’t go out there and take everything in your vitamin cabinet, or even worse your pharmaceutical cabinet and blend it all up, because you’re playing with. You need to know that it’s okay to have a high dose of it, and be careful and pay attention. – [Joseph] I would
caution you to reconsider the SOD and catalase. Those are two important antioxidants. SOD is a dismutase for superoxide. They transmuted it into hydrogen peroxide. Then catalase to take
the peroxide to water, or water ideally. The danger of doing that, is those are rally important
signaling molecules and you’re kind of playing
with fire in my view, and the better way I believe, is to upregulate them hormetically, and there’s some very
elegant ways to do that. The best probably being,
molecular hydrogen. – [Dave] More so than ozone therapy. Interesting, all right. – [Joseph] Ozone may but
I’m not familiar with it. I just haven’t studied that perspective, but there’s a number of
intriguing molecules. Biological molecules will do it. Molecular hydrogen is one, and then you’ve got Sulforaphane, which of course is from broccoli. Broccoli sprouts, but it not only upregulates
the NRF 2 pathway, but it does something really intriguing that we’re gonna talk about, which is one of the other
benefits of fasting, and maybe we can delve off here. – [Dave] I think we need to tell people what SOD and catalase are, just because I think people say, what the heck is going on here, and I have too much SOD
horror story as well. Why don’t you share what
SOD and catalase are and what they do, and we’ll talk about how
to manage oxidative stress. – [Joseph] Well, they’re
essentially antioxidants and mostly produced in your mitochondria because that’s where they’re mostly made, because most of the superoxide, is produced in the mitochondria as an artifact of transferring the electrons through the
electron transport chain, and that’s part of the process, and normally, interestingly, this is an interesting
side effect or tangent is that if you’re metabolically healthy like you and I are, and
most of your listeners, you’re going to get, it’s not a perfect
transfer of those electrons from your food to energy. You’re gonna leak about 3%
to 5% of the electrons out and they’ll develop superoxide which SOD, superoxide, transmutes to hydrogen peroxide, and then peroxide is neutralized
by catalase to water. That occurs normally in mitochrondria, but if you’re metabolically inflexible, and you’re primarily getting your food and most of your calories from carbs, especially unhealthy carbs, then you’re gonna generate, instead of 3% to 5%, you might generate 40% more, so you have increased oxidative stress, just burning your fuel for energy, which is crazy. Oxidative stress is a
prescription for disaster. Unnecessary oxidative stress. You need some because
they’re really important biological signaling molecules, which is why I get back
to the other argument, while taking exogenous
antioxidants like SOD or catalase may not be a wise strategy, because you’re playing God almost, and you’re trying to
figure this thing out. My approach is to let your
body figure out if you need it by giving these biological molecules, because molecular hydrogen just doesn’t frivolously increase your SOD or catalase or glutathione. It assesses exactly
what the parameters are of your biological damage, and if you need it. If you have excessive oxidative stress, it will dissociate from
the key point protein, which gets it active, and it goes into their DNA. Activates the antioxidant
response, The ARE genes, and will help your body
make those antioxidants almost instantaneously, so you’ve got it right where
you need it in the cells. In the mitochondria, so that you can neutralize
that oxidative stress. I think it’s wise to let your
body do the heavy lifting, rather than you try to micromanage it. – [Dave] I very much appreciate and support that perspective. Healthy mitochondria ought to be able to make enough antioxidants
to handle their own stuff. When I was 300 pounds, and I had serious metabolic derangement for a variety of reasons including at the time I was a raw vegan for awhile and not to mention toxic mold exposure, and heavy metals and eating
lots of the wrong foods and all the other stuff, but I did find antioxidants
like those were helpful and as I got metabolically healthy, I said I’m gonna try suppressing SOD and take some supplements that are specifically targeted SOD. I did this for four days, and I have not felt
that wrecked in so long, because when you don’t have enough free radicals generated
by your mitochondria, they down regulate their function. Within four days I felt like I was making a third as much energy as I should, and I really was just. I have to put one foot in
front of the other today. Which is not my characteristic state. I don’t take those supplements at all, except after I fly. You have a very large spike
in free radical production that isn’t really good. I found that a relatively low dose transmucosal SOD and catalase does make a difference for me, but only on a functional use when I knew I just did something
unnatural to my biology. Taking a long flight is not good for you, but potentially if I
was breathing hydrogen or doing some other hydrogen supplement, maybe I wouldn’t even need to do that. It’s been working for me so far, but it’s once a week. – [Joseph] It’s one way to do that, but let me seek to upgrade
your flying remediation, because it’s an issue for most of us, and I fortunately travel
about once a month on average. – [Dave] Yeah, let’s
have a whole 10 minutes, where we both talk about
the best cellular level travel hacks and all the other stuff. I want to compare notes with you. I’ve been wanting to do this for years. Let’s just do it. – [Joseph] Okay, I think I’ve got it. First of all, let me tell you, the David Wolfe strategy doesn’t work, to fly at night, because I’ve taken a meter
up there, a geiger counter, and it’s the same level
at night as daytime, so the Earth isn’t gonna shield you from the sun’s rays. It’s pervasive. It’s ionizing radiation up there. It’s gamma rays at 35,000 feet. Very similar to X-rays. Not as high a dose. Depending on how long you fly, it could be the equivalent
of one chest X-ray. Cat Scans are about 200 chest X-rays, so whatever we’re talking about for remediation of flying damage, is also crucial critical vital that if for whatever
reason you need a Cat Scan you gotta implement this strategy otherwise you are gonna
get damaged very severely. No question about it. Because if we’re talking about mitigating ionizing radiation damage. What happens during this? What happens is that, the ionizing radiation
damages your body in two ways, or your DNA primarily which is what we’re concerned about. It has enough energy to directly break the DNA covalent bonds. Either single or double stranded breaks, but that’s not the way
most of it gets done. It gets done by creating, by hitting the water in
the cell, in the nucleus, spinning off hydroxyl free radicals, and the hydroxyl free radicals are what bust the bonds. You get direct and indirect damage and that’s what has to be repaired. Now thank God, your body has a system designed to repair this, and this is, you may not
have heard this before Dave, but the system is called PARP. Poly ADP ribose polymerase, but what PARP do. This is so cool. PARP, I don’t know if you know, that NAD plus embedded
within that molecule is ADP. Did you know that? – [Dave] Yep. – [Joseph] What PARP does
is it sucks out the ADP from NAD plus. Not just from one NAD plus. From about 150 molecules of an NAD plus and it creates this
matrix of rival polymers that essentially creates a framework so the DNA repair enzymes can come in and repair that damage. You’ve lost 150 molecules of NAD for every strand you bust. It would make sense, and there’s no question about that this PARP depletion of NAD, is the single largest
consumer of NAD plus. I think one of the primary strategies is to replenish NAD, and previously I was
using NR recommendation but I was upgrading it, because I was actually using NAD. Up until earlier this year, I was not a fan of NAD IV, or other methods to get. – [Dave] I love the stuff. – [Joseph] That’s because I was unaware of a transport mechanism, and I couldn’t find the literature, but James Clement kindly
showed me where it was and it is an NAD plus
transporter to get in itself. It’s a charged molecule. It won’t get in spontaneously. It has to have a transporter, and the transporters connects them to T3, and it gets into the cell. I’m now a big fan, and I used to use these patches. The battery patches that
you put on your skin, but I learned from your cofounder of Upgrade Labs, Martin Tobias, he took me aside, one of these. – [Dave] He’s the President and CEO but I founded it a couple
years before I hired him. – [Joseph] Okay, I’m sorry. – [Dave] It’s okay. – [Joseph] I just didn’t
remember correctly. – [Dave] It’s okay. – [Joseph] He’s a cool guy. It was great to meet him. He pulled me aside and
told me the details, that you had talked to the apothecary, Archway Apothecary, and now have a buffered NAD solution that you can inject sub Q and that is clearly the best way to go. Like .1 CC sub Q of NAD buffered solution that’s stable for months is like wow. That is the best way to do it. The other one is really cool, and another reason why
I do partial fasting or keto fasting when I fly. If I’m like I’m gonna fly
to Austin on Wednesday, or Thursday, so I will do
a partial fast on Wednesday and I will not eat Thursday. I’m gonna go into Austin
on a 40 hour fast. High ketone levels do a number of things. They increase NADPH. On one of our previous interviews, we were talking about mitochondria. You were describing mitochondria as the battery of the cell, but it really isn’t the
battery of the cell. The battery of the cell is NADPH. That’s the reservoir of. – [Dave] It’s the storage mechanism. I agree with you. – [Joseph] It’s a storage. So you restore this reductive potential that can recharge your
antioxidants like glutathione, and all the other ones that you need, and high ketone esters will do that and they’re also really potent Histone deacetylase inhibitors. If I’m flying, I like to
have my ketones two or three and that’s time to take ketone esters. So you can take ketone esters. I still haven’t figured
out the timing on this. You could take it when you’re flying. You’ve interviewed him before. – [Dave] Yeah, he’s been on the show. – [Joseph] He’s one of
the world experts on this and his associate is William Curtis. He’s another cool guy, and the studies they publish
show that if you do it, and at least in rats,
if you do it 24 hours after the ionizing radiation exposure, it obliterated almost all the damage. That’s what I’m doing now. It just makes it a little more convenient. I take the dose after I land, or the next day after I land. – [Dave] The other thing that’s completely transformative for me
comes from Nick Foals. The Superbowl MVP who is a friend. He’s been on the show, and just an amazing human being. I’ve worn compression socks
for a long time when I fly, because the evidence is
pretty strong about that, and he’s like Dave, you gotta
try the compression pants. I’m like really? I texted him all right tell me the brand, because I bought some
that didn’t work on Amazon and he told me. I don’t know how he deals with these guys, because he told me take
the try the 2XE ones. They’re the best ones I found, but there’s no commercial
or anything there. I bought those and I started that work, so then I went on and started
testing compression shirts. If you see me on an airplane, and I look particularly ripped, it’s because I’m wearing a full body, basically from my ankles on the pants, all the way up to your midriff, and I have a compression shirt as well, and I wear it for several
hours after I fly, and the reason I think
this is so important is that electrons move
around inside your cells and your cells swell up when
you’re in high pressure. Well when there’s no
room for them to swell up they don’t swell up, so
your electron transport, is noticeably improved, just because the cells can’t get bigger. I’m telling everyone listening. If you go out and spend. It’s gonna cost you about $100 for a good pair of compression pants, but $120, $125 for a compression shirt. That’s a lot of money, but if you do that and you
wear that when you fly, when you get off the airplane, you will feel more like yourself, then you possibly could imagine. It actually works. – [Joseph] Interesting. The addition I would add to that is consider wearing an EMF blocking shirt under that compression. – [Dave] I do that actually. I do it on top of the compression. – [Joseph] You do it on top of it, okay. Mine isn’t as yours, so I have to wear it underneath. I made mine myself with sewing machine. – [Dave] We’re seriously
exposing the level of geeks that we are, Dr. Mercola, but I bought a T-shirt a
while ago, that did that. I put that on over my compression shirt, but where I have my cell phone. My cell phone’s usually in airplane mode when it’s on my body. You’re more militant about that than I am, but what I did find is that
where my cell phone sits against my leg, I don’t put it near my organs, so I put it on a pocket
on my femur basically. My right femur had 10% less bone density than my left femur where the phone is. I’m like damn it, so now I went out and I
bought EMF blocking fabric, and I sewed it all in of
the inside of my pants where my cell phone sits. If it’s turned on, and it’s against my body, it’s still getting blocked, because maybe I’m just paranoid, but that 10% bone density, was enough to get my attention. – [Joseph] Interesting. It reminds me of one of the amazing people in the audience at one of my presentations was a part of Osteo Strong, who you have interviewed before, John. – [Dave] Yeah, John. I like John. He’s been on the show. – [Joseph] One of his
associates in the U.K. was there and he shared that oh I changed his life by watching my video I did on the beach. He move from the U.K. to Spain. He’s giving me an Osteo Strong. He wants my bone density to be higher. That Osteo Strong it’s amazing machine. They’re few and far between, but boy that could radically increase your bone density. – [Dave] Yeah, they have some kind of a franchise small business thing. There’s great science in it, and when you look at all
these little hacks like that. Something else I’ll do. I should mention for flying. I bring one of the TruLife. This is one of the companies I started. The one that makes the glasses. The TruLife glasses. – [Joseph] Those are great. I love those, especially the new ones. The graded ones. – [Dave] Oh, the sunset ones? – [Joseph] Yeah. – [Dave] By the way, my name’s
on the patent for those. I was like this is a good idea, because the angle of
light coming in matters and we tested it out and it worked, but I’ll use the infrared light therapy when I get back to my hotel room. I notice that that also just really helps. It seems to help my sleep as well, so I’ll tend to use that mostly over my organ systems. – [Joseph] You travel with that? – [Dave] Yeah, we have
one that’s a little panel. It’s not particularly. – [Joseph] Yeah, I think I saw it. It’s like about the size
of a small 12 by 12 inches. – [Dave] Yeah, I think it’s
either 12 by 12 or 14 by 14. Dr. Mercola, I’m interviewing people. I want to learn from you. I sometimes feel like I
don’t want to talk too much on an episode, but here you
have a great amount of knowledge so it’s kind of cool
to swap notes with you. – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah. Those are some really good hacks. I love it. I’m gonna start doing them. – [Dave] Go for it, and I just encourage everyone. You’re listening to this guy. What the heck are, they’re injecting themselves. They’re sticking stuff wherever, and you don’t have to do everything we do, but we’re insanely curious people, looking to live a very long time, and feel really good, and bring a lot of knowledge to the world and all that kind of stuff, and it just takes energy management. Even if you’re not a highly
sensitive person like I am. I was pretty wrecked, so
I would feel everything. Now I’m highly resilient, compared to anything I’ve ever been but I know my weaknesses, and I know that with the amount I fly every week I fly somewhere. I am doing a level of flying, that would shorten most people’s lives and still may shorten mine, but I’m doing that for a good cause, and that means I’m gonna
minimize every hit. If you fly once a year to Hawaii, you’re gonna do this
because you want to feel good in Hawaii and get an
extra day of vacation out of it but if you do this every day for a living, you better know how to fly like a boss. – [Joseph] It’s well
documented that flight crews have a 30% increased risk for cancer, and it’s primarily
because they’re not able to mitigate the oxidative stress. Those strategies are just magnificent. – [Dave] One more for you. Ready for this one? I make this box I send out once a quarter. It’s a curated box of
cool biohacking stuff and I sent this out
about maybe a year ago. It’s a charcoal mask, and by the way if you guys wanna know my cool biohacking little toys, it’s biohacked.com B-I-O-H-A-C-K-E-D dot com. So this is a curated box of
goodies I send every quarter, but this charcoal mask. It was a little breathing mask. Something I’d wear at Burning Man. I have it in my bag, and I’ve only had to use
it about five or six times, but there’s something called
a fume event on airplanes and you’ll usually get this on the ground but sometimes in mid air, and we’ve all experienced
it, probably one time. You smell a huge amount of jet exhaust, because the airplane
sucked in its own exhaust when it was on the ground. Now what they do with jet fuel is they insert or they mix in a neurotoxin into the jet fuel. It’s there for a good cause, because it makes the jet
fuel much less explosive, so the airplanes don’t blow up as much. That’s good for us. However, if you breathe
that stuff, it wrecks you. I noticed that on the times
when this would happen. The entire flight, I’m trying to read. I’m trying to focus, and I’m just like someone
gave me a Valium or something. It just wrecks my brain, and I don’t feel good for hours and hours. That can happen or hydraulic fluid, can leak on to the compressors that are compressing the thin atmosphere during flights, and you smell this weird
burn plastic-y kind of smell. Yes, I put my mask on
if I smell that stuff and I feel fine afterwards, and if I don’t I lose
eight hours of productivity and God knows what my liver
had to do with all that stuff. I carry it but I don’t normally use it. – [Joseph] That’s a good strategy. I’ve usually been packing a
little personal air filter that secretes some ozone. – [Dave] Oh cool. – [Joseph] Yeah, negative ions. I don’t know that that would
disrupt those chemicals but probably the filtered
mask would be better. – [Dave] It’s one of those backup things. It’s normally in the bag, but also during forest fires it’s useful. – [Joseph] Yeah, absolutely. – [Dave] I’m gonna call this the end of our first episode with Dr. Mercola and we’re gonna continue the interview on the next episode of Bulletproof Radio, so thank you for listening to this one. If you loved this episode, I’d be grateful if you went to iTunes and just left a quick review, that said Bulletproof Radio is awesome. If you haven’t had a chance
to check out KetoFast, Dr. Mercola’s new book, you should definitely order it, and I’ve gotta make sure that I say this. If you value this ind of
thing, leave a review. Review Dr. Mercola’s book. Review my books. Just take five seconds to go to Amazon. My personal thanks for doing that, because as authors we really notice and we value that. I will see you on the next episode where Dr. Mercola and
I are gonna talk about the other stuff he shared on stage at the Biohacking Conference. (ambient music)