“Joe Rogan Will Go Vegan” Says The Game Changers Producer

“Joe Rogan Will Go Vegan” Says The Game Changers Producer

November 1, 2019 100 By William Morgan


– What’s going on, YouTube? This is Klaus from Plant Based News. I just did an interview in
that building with James Wilks, the producer of “The Game Changers” which is on iTunes already
and seems to be a Netflix hit, features some amazing people, and the interview was fascinating. He spoke about Joe Rogan, as well as controversial keto
studies, and much, much more. Hope you enjoy. Please subscribe for more. (logo whooshing)
(lighthearted music) What’s going on, everybody? This is Klaus from Plant Based News. I’m with James Wilks. Thank you very much for being here. – Thanks for having me, Klaus. – [Klaus] Congratulations on
everything you’ve achieved. – Yeah, thank you. It’s been exciting times. – So where do you go from here in terms of you’ve even
now got it on iTunes, it’s coming out to Netflix, there’s gonna be lots of people interested in the film like Joe Rogan. He’s already spoken about the film, already criticized it, I believe. He said James Cameron,
the executive producer’s on some weird vegan kick. Are you gonna be in the Joe Rogan podcast? – I’m sure I will be. I’m sure Joe will want me on. I haven’t talked to him yet about it. But I think Joe, once he sees this film, it’ll be a little different than the films he’s seen before. Hopefully, he’ll be open to the evidence because the facts are pretty clear. If you’re not biased and you’re
really open to the evidence, you’ll see that the plant-based
diet is the way to go, both for athletic
performance and for health. And from here, like you
said, it’s on iTunes. It’s also on Google Play and Vudu and Vimeo and YouTube Movies, and we’re trying to get
as wide as possible. Netflix, of course. We’ll be doing screenings for people. – [Klaus] How is it getting on Netflix? ‘Cause normally, things in
Netflix just stay on Netflix and you can’t use the other platforms. You probably negotiated with them for a long period of time. How was that? Why is your movie different
to every other movie which when it’s on
Netflix, stays in Netflix, and they’ve got exclusivity over it? – Yeah, they have a
couple of different deals, so they have a Netflix Originals deal which we had many offers for, but we don’t wanna be restricted
so we basically negotiated to have this as far and wide as possible. And surprisingly, we’re
getting a lot of demand for DVDs and Blu-ray so we’re
gonna be putting those out in a couple of weeks as well, ’cause people wanna give ’em out as gifts. And then the film has also been accredited by the American College
of Lifestyle Medicine which means that every doctor
and nurse in the United States can get credits by watching the film and taking a quiz that we developed. And they’ve been asking
for DVDs and Blu-rays to hand out to all their patients, “Can I have 500 Blu-rays or DVDs?” and that’s great because
doctors have got an easy way than to give the information
to their patients. So we just kinda get as wide as possible so we did negotiate a deal with
Netflix in order to do that. – Going back to Joe Rogan, why do you think he’s so closed-minded about plant-based living and this whole narrative
of you don’t need meat? – Yeah, and I think Joe’s, he’s super into his hunting, and so if you’re a hunter,
that’s your mindset. You feel like. And there’s something generally appealing of living off nature and
living like our ancestors. A lot of that paleo diet tied in, if you look on Google Trends, the paleo diet became the
unofficial diet of CrossFit. If you go on Google Trends and
type in paleo and CrossFit, you’ll see the correlation. They go up in parallel. There’s that idea of working out based on the way that our ancestors did, and then there’s this
notion which is false which is let’s eat in the
way that our ancestors ate. Of course, we didn’t eat like that. Maybe in some areas of the
world, we did at certain times, but as we move forward from the equator, we were forced to eat
some more animal products ’cause plants weren’t as available. But of course now, we have
grocery stores and supermarkets and we can just go and
buy whatever food we want. But I think that’s the notion. I think once Joe Rogan sees the evidence, I think he might change his mind. – Do you think he will die
sponsored by meat companies? Do you think that has any hindrance? – No, I think Joe talks
too much about veganism to not it be in the back of his mind. He did talk about it more than I do so. – [Klaus] So do you think
that’s out of repression? Do you think he talks about it so much ’cause something deep down in him is really interested in it? – Yeah. I think the people that
talk that much about it and talk out against it that much are the ones that end up. That’s what I’ve seen. In the end, the ones
that end up switching. So I do actually think that
Joe is gonna make a switch. In the coming years,
that he’d go plant-based. – Was that like you? Were you against it initially when you first heard of that narrative around you don’t need meat,
be like what the hell? – Yeah, totally. In fact, before I went on this journey, I walked into a restaurant and there was on the menu it said chicken, but it was spelt funny. I said, “Well, why is it spelt like that?” He said it was not real
chicken, it’s made from plants. So I said, “Well, where’s
the real chicken?” “Oh, we don’t have any.” “So what meat do you have?” “We don’t have any.” “Okay, have you got any eggs?” And they said, “No, it’s
a vegan restaurant.” and I just looked at my
buddy and just walked out. And I wouldn’t have stepped
inside a vegan restaurant before ’cause I thought we had to have meat and animal protein at every meal. So I was definitely on that track. I was eating chicken, lean turkey, and then at one point, I switched more of a paleo diet, eating air-chilled chicken
and grass-fed beef. But when you dig the research and not just listen to the
magazines and on the web, if you really dig into the research and look at who funds it, you’d come to the same
conclusion that I did that plants are the way to go. – What do you think is
the most unhealthy aspect of this paleo-carnivore path? – Well, it’s funny because the longest study ever
done on the paleo diet, they actually showed
improved health markers. Now, it might sound contradictory because there’s meat in there but if you actually look
at what they are eating. So they advise people
to stop eating dairy, so they did that. So we’d agree that’s a good thing, cut out dairy out of your diet. Then they said to eat more
fruits and vegetables. And we’d all agree that’s
a good part of the diet. Then they said to cut
down on processed foods, and they cut down on processed foods, and that’s a good part of the diet. And then they said to
increase their meat intake. The one thing that they didn’t do when they followed up after two years is they did not increase
their meat intake. – Right, even though
they could, and then– – They could have done but they increased their plant foods, – Right, so it actually
became a healthier diet. – They cut down on dairy. They ate a more plant-based diet. So the benefits that they’re getting from eating more whole plant
foods, cutting out dairy, and not increasing their meat intake, so people couldn’t stick to the meat consumption recommendations ’cause they didn’t like it. So if you look at that longer study, it had a two-year follow-up, and it’s the longest follow-up
they’ve done on a paleo diet. And they had health markers. So they had improved health
markers, but why was that– – Like weight status and of the collection–
– Yeah, the cholesterol. Yeah, those that– – [Klaus] Because they ate more plants, ate less processed food, which is what you recommend, a more friendly diet.
– Exactly. And they cut out dairy. That’s a more plant-based diet. – So do you give any credibility, any credence to this carnivore diet notion where people are eating literally
just red, raw organ meat? And why do you think people
are getting benefits from that? I don’t think that’s something you tackled in the documentary ’cause it’s only been a trend
in the last year or two, but what’s your take on that new trend? – Yeah, we touched very briefly. I think we mentioned that it was keto but there was a study done where they had a randomized
controlled trial, they put two groups on isocaloric, it means the same amount of calories, same amount of protein. They put one on a normal carb
diet, one on a keto diet, and the group in the normal carb diet gained 2.6 pounds of muscle,
I think it was, in eight weeks and the keto group lost statistically insignificant 0.2 pounds of muscle on the group. So we touched on that
very briefly in the film, but so that’s the keto, but then the carnivore diet, I mean, yeah, I think
people, in the short-term, there’s many ways to
lose weight for example. So you could have a cocaine
habit, you can have parasites, or you can just eat a bunch of meat, and there’s ways to curb your appetite. So you get– – So as you’re going to
ketosis, basically, I mean– – Yeah, that’s one of the things
but also what you’re doing is you’re getting state-specific satiety. So when you’re eating
only one type of food or very limited foods, your
body gets fed up with it so you end up not eating as many calories. You can lose body fat from
that in the short-term. – Right, like if you
have an all-potato diet or all-rice and sugar diet, or all-meat diet, it’s the same concept. – Yeah. So you’ll lose body fat
and when you lose body fat, you typically, you’re in the short-term, your health markers improve. I think people are seeing
benefits from that. I think people are also seeing benefits from cutting out lots of
heavily processed food. So if you’re eating, drinking lots of soda and
eating lots of cookies and you’re eating meat and then you cut out soda and cookies and now you’re only eating the meat, you’ve cut out a couple of the bad things and you’re still eating one bad thing but you’re not eating three bad things. So I think there’s some
short-term benefits to that. But I really think we’re
gonna start seeing problems for the people that try and
stick to any of these diets on the longterm. And I think a lot of
people are being dishonest. – In what way? – About what they’re eating. – As in they– – I don’t think most of the
people that claim to be on it are eating only meat. And also, there’s guys that
say I’m on a paleo diet. And I was training with guys
that were fighting for the UFC, and oh, I’m doing the paleo diet. Oh, okay. Then you show up and
they’re drinking Gatorade right before the training session, and then a Gatorade during
the training session, and Gatorade at the end
of the training session. What paleo ancestors were doing that? – So it’s a double-standard, yeah. – Yeah, because they’re like, oh yeah, but I felt kinda tired. So down loads of coffee, drinking
Gatorade before training, like, well, you’re not really
tracking your nutrients then and then what are you
drinking Gatorade for? They said, “Yeah, well I needed the carbs “to follow it exactly.” – [Klaus] Right, which
was your point, yeah. – Yeah, so that some of them
are being a bit dishonest about what they’re doing. – So you think that doctors and athletes and people that support this who need meat for protein
and healthy narrative, you think they’re not just misinformed, there’s a lack of integrity
there or there’s– – Not with everybody. I think there’s some people probably doing straight-up carnivore. They might be getting a
little bit of Vitamin C from the seasoning they’re putting on it. Yeah, I just don’t think
it’s sustainable longterm. We know it’s not healthy,
it’s terrible for the planet, and there’s no way that it can be optimizing athletic
performance or health. – So just coming to the end now, you’re obviously gonna be
busy the next month or two, probably thereafter as well, and then what are you
gonna do with your time? – Right now, we’re just
promoting the film. We’ve had like 1,400
official screening requests sent in by email as well as a couple thousand
more on social media, so I’ll probably be doing some screenings. We’re focused right now on
putting resources and recipes on the website, GameChangersMovie.com. ‘Cause there’s five out of
six people that go meat-free end up going back, and one
of the top reasons cited is they don’t have the
resources or the knowledge. So we’ve got those recipes on there, we’ve got tips on how to transition, we’ve got more of the science, we’re gonna keep putting more on there, we’re gonna have an online
community on Facebook so people can ask our
scientific team questions, talk to the athletes and
the experts in the film, talk amongst themselves for
tips on how to make changes. ‘Cause I think we need that community and we need that support. It’s difficult to do on your own. It’s easier if you can get your family and your friends onboard as well. So hopefully, people would share
the film with those people, and I think it’s gonna make a big shift. – Do you have any personal correspondence with James Cameron and Novak Djokovic, all these executive producers? – Oh, absolutely, yeah. – And it seems they’re
being really supportive. – Absolutely, they are really supportive. Arnold’s been super supportive. He was the first one
to put the trailer out when we dropped it and had three million
views in the first 24 hours just on his Instagram page. – Lewis Hamilton shared the trailer. Novak Djokovic did. I’m not sure about Jackie Chan. Haven’t seen his social media. – Yeah, ’cause we’re just about to sign, actually, we haven’t announced that we’re to sign a
deal in China as well. – [Klaus] Congratulations. – Yeah, and the platform has hundreds of, actually, twice as many
viewers as Netflix does. – Right, so it’s like
bigger than Netflix there. – Yeah, bigger than Netflix.
– Wow! And so he was a big part of
that is what you’re saying? – He’s holding off to promote
until it comes out there, but all the other EPs have
been extremely helpful and really supportive. Jim Cameron, especially from
the very beginning over– – How has that been? So you started this journey and it was just you and Joseph? – Yeah. – And then you probably
shot the bit of content and then it’s gone from that to Hollywood, star-studded
list of these people. How has that journey been? In many ways, they’re a
big part of its success ’cause they probably helped
bring in the investment which helped bring in the team, how was that general experience? Have you got any anecdotes or things that happened behind the scenes that are really pivotal that
you haven’t spoken about? – I’m not sure if I
haven’t spoken about them. Rip Esselstyn from Engine 2, he was in touch with James Cameron. He introduced us. We went out to his home in Malibu and he was just extremely
supportive from the beginning. Of course, he’s good buddies with Arnold because of “Terminator” and they ride bikes together and ride Harleys together still. – Novak Djokovic, obviously, he’s somebody
that’s been plant-based for a few years that hasn’t
really spoken out about it, and I feel like being in the documentary as executive producer
has been that catalyst that prompted him to speak out about it, when we did for example. – Yeah, and I think because of
the stigma against veganism, there’s a lot of people we’ve spoken to that had a hard time coming out about it. It’s almost like they’re in the closet, like they’re so embarrassed
about it, and so we’re– – Right, so they’re
getting the health benefits and they believe in that social return and the environmentalism, all of the things why
plant-based is a good thing but they’re hesitant to
actually come out about it. – Right. – Maybe, the film’s actually
helped them come out because it’s changing this–
– No, definitely. – Changing the course.
– We’ve had people, celebrities, famous musicians that said, oh, I hold bandas, plant-based
and has been for years but we don’t wanna come out yet but when your film comes out, then we’ll start telling people. We’ve also had athletes
that we’ve approached that have been eating
this way for a long time and don’t even wanna
tell anybody because– – They didn’t wanna be in the film? They didn’t want that
negative stigma against– – No, it wasn’t that. They didn’t wanna give
away their advantage. – That’s fascinating. – So they had an aesthetic advantage. So some people said, yeah, I
don’t wanna really let this out until it’s really, really mainstream, I’d rather keep this advantage. I’m better off day-to-day
and I’m gonna have a long– – What kind of sports? I’m not pushing on the names, but at least can you mention the sports? – NFL, NBA.
– Wow! – Yeah, some really major athletes. – Wow!
– They’re eating this way that just don’t wanna announce it. – So this is, just to
wrap up this interview, this is one of the biggest
trends in food you think coming? And also–
– I don’t know. – What excites you most
about the movement? Obviously, “The Game
Changers” has been massive but there’s loads of other
aspects and things going on. If you just take a step back and remove “The Game
Changers” from the equation, what other things are really
giving you excitement? – In the food space, it’s
the plant-based burgers, the plant-based milks. I think it gives people those options. Even though eating whole plant
foods is gonna be optimal, certainly, if you’re at Carl’s Jr., is it better to get the beef burger or is it better to get the Beyond Burger? And you’re just way better
off getting the Beyond Berger. Now, if you would compare that to a lentil and yam stew or something, that’s gonna be healthier
than that, the Beyond Burger. So it’s always compared to what but these plant-based meat alternatives, they’re healthier, they’re accessible, it is a transitionary food, people, it’s more they’re
familiar taste and texture so I think those are really important. So I think the timing of
the film is also great because even if you’re just gonna go and get fast food in the States, you can go pretty much to any
of the fast food joints now and there’s food available. Again, not saying to eat
that most of the time but I think it’s great that these, and the plant-based milks now. – Do you think you made that message clear enough in the film? Do you think you separated out the unprocessed and the
processed vegan food? ‘Cause I’d be honest, I have your respect, I’ve watched it once and this is I might watch it
again and think differently, but one potential criticism I had was that for somebody not
familiar of this space, they could really watch that and go, oh, I saw those recipes at the end, they look cheesy, they look processed, I really, really like it. I’m gonna go for the Beyond Burger. So was that part of the strategy? And are you aware of that? – If you listen carefully
when we talk about the science based on whole plant foods, we tried to say that but the film– – This descriptive thing,
if you go back five times, I’m sure you are right. So I do remember you mentioning
it by mean of face value, people just watching it once. When they can only take away one or two things from the film, that would be one potential criticism. I’m just trying to deconstruct it. – No, that’s good, yeah. I think to us, it wasn’t
trying to tell people what they should be
eating, the types of food. It wasn’t prescribing a particular
type of plant-based diet ’cause right in the
plant-based diet community, you’ve got, oh, you should be low-fat or you should be raw, uncooked foods, you should be high-fat, whatever, it should be all whole foods or you should have some protein
powder or you shouldn’t. There’s lots of different disagreements within the plant-based community. But we weren’t trying to
prescribe any particular diet. What we were trying to do
is, well, first of all, we’re trying to show my journey
and cover what I learned but we were trying to
basically show the facts, dispel some myths about the fact, the myth that you need to eat meat and animal products for protein. So that was the goal of the film, not to tell people that you
should be eating all whole foods or you should be eating this or that or high protein, low
protein, high carb, low carb. We weren’t trying to prescribe a diet. We were trying to dispel myths and let people make their own decision. And again, we’re not trying to tell people to go vegan or go vegetarian. We’re trying to just– – Just put the information out and then– – Put the information out, let people make their own decision. And then on the website, we’re doing to go into
more detail breaking up, yeah, it’s better to split
plants and animal products, get as many calories as you
can, if not a 100% from plants, and then within that, get as many whole foods
instead of processed foods. So we go into that more on the website. – Cool. We’re going to come to an end, but just one or two
really quick questions, the Arnold Schwarzenegger
alligator bottom-left, whose idea was that? – That was just there,
it’s not a real alligator, it’s a movie prop. – [Klaus] Was it just there? I’m sure somebody
deliberately placed it there. – Nah, that was just sitting there. – And positioned it there, and then put the lower
third which scrolled out. – Yeah, no.
– So that people’s eyes were drawn to it. – Yeah, no, no, no. There were also some books
that were showed in the film. They said, “Oh, you
placed that as a prop.” They were just sitting there. We didn’t take any product placement, we didn’t do a favor by putting in one– – I’m sure, I’m not
saying product placement but I think somebody from
your videography team that have said, you’ve
got an alligator there, that probably helps because it’s gonna make
Arnie not look preachy. He’s not some freaky– – Nah, it wasn’t that at all. – Really? It’s just there.
– No, I was there. – Really, it’s just there?
– No, I was there from the beginning of the shoot. – Wow, cool.
– It’s just sitting there. It was just random, yeah. – [Klaus] I thought it was
like a strategic thing. – No, we actually thought
about taking it out. – Wow!
– Probably just thought, nah, we’ll leave it. So it’s just naturally there
sitting under his pool table. – Cool!
– It might. – Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it.
– Cool! Thanks for having me, Klaus.
– Yeah, yeah. Thanks for everything
you’ve helped us with and all of this exclusive
content and interviews and stuff. And any closing remarks about
where the film’s disputed or where people can find out information? I think you said it. – Yeah, I think it’s on all of most the major
transactional platforms. It’s gonna be on iTunes October 16th. Yeah, go check it out. Tell your friends to watch it. And if you wanna follow
us on social media, it’s GameChangersMovie on
Instagram and on Facebook, and GCMovie on Twitter. The website, once again,
GameChangersMovie.com. (logo whooshing) (object thuds) (logo whooshing)