Beyond Ketofast: Your Need-to-Know Guide – Part 2 with Dr. Joseph Mercola #588

Beyond Ketofast: Your Need-to-Know Guide – Part 2 with Dr. Joseph Mercola #588

July 28, 2019 19 By William Morgan


(upbeat music) – [Announcer] Bulletproof Radio. A state of high performance. – [Dave] You’re listening
to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. This is the second part of
the interview with Dr. Mercola done right after he got off stage at the 6th Annual Biohacking Conference which was held down in Beverly Hills. We are now going to talk
about some of the other things he shared with the audience on stage. Dr. Mercola, welcome back to the show. – [Joseph] Hey, great to
continue with you, Dave. – [Dave] Let’s talk about the other things that you shared with the audience. People were just abuzz with
all the stuff you talked about especially during your breakout
session at the conference, but what else was on your
main stage presentation that we haven’t talked
about in the show so far? – [Joseph] Well, before
I answer that I just, if you haven’t listened to
the episode one, please do because I had some
comments about how I felt about what you did with the conference and just so listen to that if you haven’t. But extending the conversation, we all know that not eating
for a few hours before bedtime is a good strategy. I think there’s very few
people who will dispute that, at least rational people. But I never really
understood why that was so. I mean obviously putting your
gut at rest is a good idea but what happens when
you eat close to bedtime? Well, I was doing some reading on one of my favorite new molecules, NADPH. We talked about it in the last episode that reduces oxidative stress, and it turns out that the
largest consumer of NADPH, like the largest consumer
of NAD+ is PARP activation, the largest consumer of
NADPH is making fatty acids. So if you are eating food
before you go to bed, you’re not gonna burn those calories y ’cause you’re not that active. So your body has to do
something with them, it can’t eliminate it
magically through the air so it has to store them
and it stores them as fat. And to produce fat it’s making fatty acids so you’re consuming NADPH and you’re lowering your NADPH levels which is the last thing you want to do in the middle of the night when you’re regenerating and repairing. So it’s just crazy to self-sabotage and eat before you go to bed. That’s my belief is probably,
one of the primary reasons. I haven’t had a chance to discuss it with some researchers but I was actually, right before podcast ’cause I realized I needed to ping Satchin Panda and see what his thoughts are in it but I’m pretty sure– – [Dave] He’s the top guy, definitely. When I interviewed him, the
evidence is really clear. Eating after dark is not a good strategy. What is less clear though
is that if you’re planning to go to bed at 2 a.m. whether
it’s okay to eat at 10:00. Is there a window? Do you have a thought on that? – [Joseph] Yeah, I do, I
think you need that three, I think it’s a minimum
of three, ideally four. I do five or six hours before. So it’s just when, it’s
before you go to bed. So if you’ve optimized
your circadian rhythm and I think you’ve changed since you had your stem-cell makeover, you’re going to bed earlier
at least from what you shared on previous podcast. So that’s good, it’s dependent
upon your personal bedtime. – [Dave] So three or four
hours before bedtime. And I gotta say even if you are what? Michael Bruce, the author
of The Power of When and a friend and a guest on the show, he talks about whether you’re a wolf, one of the people who
stays up very late at night and who has probably evolved
to be the night shift to protect the tribe or
whether you’re a lion, the people who wake up at four
in the morning ready to kill. It doesn’t really matter,
you’re somewhere in there. It’s still ideal to eat before it’s dark but there are other eating strategies. For instance, if you’re
working in the emergency room and you’re gonna stay up all
night or you’re a student who’s gonna study till dawn
you probably do want to eat because you’re gonna get some
stimulating things from it. But you’re not sleeping so
you’re gonna use those calories. But otherwise even if it’s
gonna be a 2 a.m. night and you’re gonna be writing
till late in the evening, I would still say you eat
before the Sun goes down. Tend to agree? – [Joseph] Yeah, I mean
ideally, I mean I think it’s, that’s the prescription for
optimized circadian rhythm. One of the things I almost
always get perfect scores on on my Aura Ring are circadian rhythm. It’s like it’s 100% almost
every time unless I’m traveling. – [Dave] Oh, I got a question for you. All right, so we both use
an Aura ring and okay, I’m making my very best,
anytime I talk about something where I’ve become enamored of it and like I’m an investor in Aura. I’ve become an advisor,
I’m friends with Harper, he’s been on the show. So I call that out not to
brag but just so you guys know I may have a bias. But with the Aura Ring, I
have found that I’m getting, it’s very common to get an
hour and a half of deep sleep, an hour and a half of REM sleep even in six or seven hours of sleep. And sometimes I’ll even
get two hours of those, which is better than
I’ve ever had in life. What’s your average amount of time that you’re sleeping, Dr. Mercola and what are the typical
amounts of REM and deep that you’re getting? – [Joseph] Well, I’m a bit older than you and clearly, and I’m certainly
not an expert in sleep but I listen to a lot of people
who are like Matthew Walker and it seems that the amount of deep sleep tends to decrease with
you age and it seems to be the big observation. So I’m not as optimized as you. One of my goals and I’m pretty
sure I’ll be able to hack it would be to increase in deep sleep. There are many nights
where I get zero deep sleep but it would be– – [Dave] Oh. – [Joseph] Yeah, but they’ve
changed the algorithm. I don’t know if you know this. For the people like me, I mean (mumbles) nice I
was getting five six, hours of REM sleep but like
not that much deep sleep but they changed the algorithm. Now I’m not getting as much REM sleep. We’re making assumptions here. They’re using correlations
between your heartrate patterns ’cause they’re not measuring your EEG. It’s just an estimate. It’s one of the best estimates we have now but it’s not an EEG assessment. And I think Walker is
working on some companies that are doing EEGs. I tried the Dream which
is a little more accurate but it is so cumbersome
and the company is jus– – [Dave] It’s too heavy, yeah. – [Joseph] It’s terrible
company, it really is. – [Dave] Dream is a,
it’s an EEG helmet almost that you sleep in. – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah. – [Dave] So there may be a hack for you. I just interviewed Dan
Gartenberg from Sonic Sleep, this is another sleep– – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah, I like that. I haven’t investigated
it yet but I’ve got a tab opened up on my browser to– – [Dave] Try it on your phone. You’ll have to be on airplane mode or maybe run it through
speakers from another room so you don’t get EMFs from it. But I, especially when I’m traveling I really noticed an improvement
in my deep sleep from it. That was why I, there’s no, I’m an adviser and investor
in that company too ’cause I find cool stuff
and like I have to help. So that thing I think is very real and he’s got a million dollars
of NIH grants behind it. He’s a professor I think at Penn State or University of Pennsylvania, somewhere. I’d say it’s the real
deal as far as I can tell. – [Joseph] Yeah, I know, I was intrigued. It’s intriguing, (mumbles)
time to go forward with, that was in my list of things to do. But I’ve got an interesting
that you might be, maybe I should, I just, it took a while, took me
about a year to get it but I just actually had it installed just then completed yesterday. (chuckles) It’s a float tank. – [Dave] Oh, you have
a float tank, oh nice. I have one downstairs too. You know that of course, yeah. – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah,
so it’s magnesium sulfate and that has seemed to
help dramatically now. This is a float a constructed
to do, it’s structured water and it’s disinfected with ozone. But I believe this
company has the potential to create a device that
will put in nine to 10 parts per million of a hydrogen concentration. So I could be soaking in hydrogen water. I mean they haven’t developed it yet but I think they will. – [Dave] Dang, I want that. – [Joseph] I’ve said everyone like us is gonna want one of those things. I’ll be the first to have it though. – [Dave] Okay, here’s an interesting hack. I’ve been a little bit
hesitant to try it online but if you go to the back
of a typical flow tank, you can control the temperature. And normally we keep it around 94, 95, about skin temperature. But if you wanted to do some
of the heat shock protein kind of whole body hyperthermia, there’s nothing that stops
you from putting it at 104 and floating in there. It’s gonna be a little hot, it’s gonna raise your body temperature but you can actually
have a short-term fever which is really good for
getting down viruses, certain parasites, some slow
growing gram-negative bacteria that accumulate as you age. So I’ve been wanting
to play around with it, the problem is I don’t
want to be alone in there because if you end up having
some sort of a heat shock issue you don’t want to wake up in
the morning as a sous vide. – [Joseph] Absolutely,
so that is a good segue into heat shock protein. – [Dave] Yeah, let’s talk about that. – [Joseph] What do heat shock proteins do? ‘Cause you hear everyone bantering, oh and it’s like every
one of us is supposed to know what they do. Well, I sure the heck didn’t
so I had to look it up. So what do you think they do? – [Dave] Heat shock proteins are things as far as I understand it, and I haven’t dug in on some of this stuff other than looking at like the
beneficial effects of sauna and hot/cold exposure. But certain proteins in
your body will denature even at relatively
small increases of this, and denaturing of a protein
is when the protein changes its shape in response to heat. So as far as I understand,
heat shock proteins are made when denaturing happens, but
they’re as repair systems but there’s probably a lot I don’t know ’cause like you I am
not an expert in them. – [Joseph] No, no, and that
was more than my understanding but when I looked into
it and I’ve done quite a bit of review on it and I certainly don’t
claim to be an expert but I think I understand
it at a deeper level. It’s actually, it’s not denature and it’s actually misfolding. What shocked the heck
out of me and I didn’t, but I’ve seen it from multiple sources now that 30% of the proteins that
you make right out of the box, right out of the box, 30%
of them are misfolded. – [Dave] Wow, I did not know that. – [Joseph] Yeah, I didn’t think you did, not many people know that. So 30% are misfolded and the
mechanism of your body has to repair that damage
is heat shock proteins. And actually you’ll appreciate this because heat shock proteins are actually a corollary to autophagy. So what happens is that
the heat shock proteins goes and tries to repair
the damage and to refold it. If there’s so much damage
that it can’t refold it, it will tag it with a
substance called ubiquitin and it polyubiquitinates that molecule and then it goes through the UPS, ubiquitin proteasome system
which actually degrades it and recycles the constituent elements. It’s very similar to autophagy. It’s a parallel course for autophagy. So the (mumbles) proteins
are really similar, I never knew that. But that’s why it’s so important to increase these heat shock proteins. And one of those other
nutrients I took during fasting, (mumbles) not only does
it increase NRF2 pathway but it increases heat shock proteins and also, an H-deck class two inhibitor. So these are the types of
things that you want to do. So heat and that’s why I use this sauna as part of the ketofast
program, is the sauna. I like the near-infrared because I think you get the photo
biomodulaton with the two. So I use that and then, you can combine it with cold thumb geonosis for sure but there’s other stressors, exercise probably increases
heat shock proteins as does even some other
oxidative stresses. So there’s a lot of
things that increase it but I think heat is probably one of the most important ones. – [Dave] I like that, that explanation, essentially come on in and repair stuff. It’s funny, what happens
when you lift heavy? The same thing. What happens when you use ozone therapy? Oh, here’s a big spike in free radicals. I guess the mitochondria that can’t make protective
antioxidants should die and be replaced by young ones that can. So all of these things
are just extra stimulants that tell the body you need to be able to handle more than you would if you were just lazy and sedentary and you weren’t in a constantly cyclically changing environment. So heat shock proteins are
yet another way to do it. What’s your take on the
old Swedish technique that my wife’s a fan of? Roll in the snow, get in the sauna, roll in the snow, get in the sauna. – [Joseph] I haven’t seen
any research published on it but it seems to make sense
because it’s all about cycles, which kind of brings me
back to one of the elements of the benefits of partial fasting as opposed to the fasting
mimicking diet or water fasting, is that you can do it more frequently. Now one of the cautions that those who should not partial fast
or a regular fast for certain would be anyone with an eating disorder, anyone who’s underweight or who
is breastfeeding or pregnant because pregnancy and
breastfeeding are anabolic phases and you don’t want to
compromise those at all. So assuming you don’t
have any of those things, you really want to activate autophagy. It’s best done by fasting,
intermittent fasting can do it some but it’s a
really only a mild increase. You can get close to maximum with the ketofast partial fasting but you can do that twice a week, unless you go below your
preset ideal body weight. My case is about 180, 181. If I’m below 181, I will not partial fast because I’ll lose too much weight and I just don’t want to lose weight. So most of the times I can
do it at least once a week and if I’m at home when I’m not traveling I could do it twice a week. So that’s another major benefit. So ideally you can get partial
fasting autophagy benefits and then the refeed benefits
which is according to long one I believe him, is most of
the benefit from fasting occurs during the refeed especially if you have integrated with the strength training
and growth hormone benefits, then you’re gonna do that
over 100 times a year and no way are you going
to be water fasting for 100 days a year, unless
you’re morbidly obese your body can’t support that. It’ll make you very unhealthy. Or even fasting mimicking diet, you’re not gonna do it that much. Most people do it once a
quarter, maybe a little bit more. So you get a lot more
benefits by doing it. And collectively you’ll
radically over increase the number of times that you can get it. – [Dave] What’s the
lowest percentage body fat for men and women that you consider to be in the healthy range? – [Joseph] That’s a good question. That really depends on
your individual goals but if it’s pure health, and it’s not some type of competition, because you can’t dissociate that from, ’cause people have a
lot of competitive goals and some people would take a pill that would kill them in two years if they could be a world champion. So we have to separate those two out. – [Dave] So for people who
just want to be healthy, not people who are fitness
models or something. – [Joseph] I think for men, I really wouldn’t go
much below eight or 10%. Probably for women maybe 15
to 20, somewhere in there. I think it’s probably the ranges. I mean maybe you can
go down to 12 for women but I wouldn’t go much below, I think below 12 you
start losing your period. – [Dave] I think it’s
also problematic for women because some women have big breasts and they’re made out of fat. They can change size
as you lose your weight but if you just genetically
have more fat there, your percentage of body
fat is going to be higher than someone who’s smaller. So the range has to be a
bigger range for women. And then there’s also the
question of I think age for women because of fertility. Women are storing EPA and DHA on the inside of their
thighs and on their hips and most of that gets
used for their first baby. So if you’re young and
in the fertile years, you probably should have some extra fat and it has a benefit there. So I think it’s much harder
to say what it is for women but for guys what I’ve seen
below 10 is probably not ideal for anti-aging, maybe eight. I mean I have one friend
who’s been on the show. He showed me his scans, he’s
like a 2.3% or something. At that point your lungs
can actually adhere because there’s no padding in there. Your lungs can adhere
to parts of your ribcage or your fashion in there
and actually be torn. But he feels great, looks
good, he’s in amazing shape and like man, maybe you should
eat more carbs or something. – [Joseph] Yeah, well
that’s the whole thing. It’s very clear to me
that you just cannot do, well you can but I would not recommend it if your interest is health
is to do chronic keto. It’s a bad strategy. You can do it to attain
metabolic flexibility and for some people it might take a month, maybe even better part of a year but once you got it, you do not
want to be on it continuous. Your body needs carbohydrates
on a regular basis and in my case I used
a lot of healthy fruit. I’ve actually got a garden, I think that’s bigger than yours now. I’m growing mangoes, I’m
harvesting a gallon of blueberries a day now for like the last few weeks. I’ve got a little blueberry farm and cherries and peaches and avocado. – [Dave] You’re eating
those seasonally though. I mean you’re in Florida
where it’s very sunny. So yeah, seasonal fruit I get it. It’s that, at least where I am I’m much further north in Canada. So we have, our
blueberries haven’t hit yet but I’m gonna be eating a
ton of blueberries in summer when I get sunlight but
the rest of the time I don’t use fruit. I use prebiotics because
that works better. – [Joseph] Yeah, use what is available. So especially if you can
pick it off your property, that doesn’t get much better than that. The key point here is that
you’re cycling in and out, cycling in and out. You don’t want to fast continuously, you certainly don’t want to
stimulate mTOR continuously. You want to cycle between the both of them and I think that’s when you’re
gonna optimize your health. And the frequency is based
upon your specific body and you gotta learn to
listen to your body. So sometimes it might even
be more than twice a week you want to do it or sometimes
it’s once every two weeks. So there is no right or wrong, we’re just offering guidelines in the book and encouraging people to honor what their body’s telling them
and listen to that feedback and then apply it and see how it works. ‘Cause it’s a work in progress, and I don’t think anyone’s really come up with the ultimate research
backed solution to do this. I mean we just have generic principles to guide our strategies by. – [Dave] And anyone who
does do it is going to have to have a copy of your genetics, and they’re gonna have to have
a copy of your gut bacteria at least where they are now. And when you implement
changes, three days later you’ll have different gut bacteria. And so we will have predictability here. That’s why those general principles that you’re talking about, you
talk about them in Ketofast and just on on your website and stuff. We’re talking about these matter but this is the most important thing. If something works really
well for your spouse or your friend, try it. But if it doesn’t work well for you, it’s not because you didn’t do it right unless you didn’t do it right. It’s because you’re different and you have different circadian rhythms and you have different everything. So follow principles and tune for yourself and that was the biggest
mistake that I made 20 years ago and I was working on this. Oh this seems to work
really well but guess what? Most people aren’t a six, formerly obese almost muscular guy. And so all of that really matters. And so for me to do the same thing that would work really well from one of my friends from South India where they have a totally
different genetic heritage and a different diet that evolved over the course of tens
of thousands of years, they might handle legumes
better than I do, right? And that’s okay, and neither one of us is right or wrong. It’s that mindset that I
think that you carry well in your work and you’ve
evolved your diet substantially over time based on evidence
and based on what works. Where did you start out from
a nutritional perspective? Like when you started mercola.com in 1987, just walk people listening
how much you’ve changed ’cause I’m really impressed by that. – [Joseph] Sorry, before
when I was in grade school and I was having margarine
on white toast. (chuckles) – [Dave] Yeah, me too. – [Joseph] Had what,
sprinkled with cinnamon sugar. Then I graduated to oatmeal
or Quaker Oats or something and then that didn’t get much better, was definitely low-fat. My fat intake was so low. Now admittedly I have a genetic defect for a hemolytic anemia called
thalassemia, beta thalassemia. So my cholesterol levels are low but I got my cholesterol
down to 75 which is– – [Dave] That’s bad. – [Joseph] That’s criminal,
that’s not bad, that’s criminal. It wasn’t intentional,
was just an artifact of just following a low-fat diet for me. So that was pre-med
school but in med school wasn’t much different. I didn’t really understand
this until I was mentored by Rosedale in ’95 and
he helped me appreciate, Ron Rosedale, a physician
who’s really popularized the insulin concept. And he was one of the
first people advocating the importance of insulin because it was– – [Dave] He pretty much
discovered insulin resistance and he calls it syndrome X, right? No, no, syndrome X is a different– – [Dave] A different author? – [Joseph] Metabolic syndrome. – [Dave] Sorry, metabolic syndrome, that’s what I’m thinking of, yeah yeah. – [Joseph] That was I
think Gerald Raven who– – [Dave] Okay, got it, I confused it. – [Joseph] But no, he’s
popularized it certainly in our community. There’s no question, he
was the leader in that. I remember in a lecture hall
with him with like 15 of us, he was just explaining how insulin worked and it changed my approach and really, I started getting much better results in my practice clinically. But then you just learn more and more. The recent stuff has lectin issues that, promoted or widely spread by Gondry. – [Dave] Yep, and lectins were
in the Bulletproof Diet too in 2014 but they’re like one
of five big things in food, but they’re an important one. – [Joseph] You were ahead
of the curve, no question well before I appreciated it. And now it’s definitely
part of any strategy I ever recommend for anyone,
for an issue, no question to remove lectins. But with respect to diet, I think the keto was
like relatively recent, four years ago or so. – [Dave] You were also
mostly raw and kind of, not vegetarian-ish maybe
is the way to describe it for a while. I think you’ve involved and I did too I was a raw vegan for a while. I was like more raw is better. – [Joseph] I was a raw vegan
but I did believe in raw foods and I still eat a lot of raw foods but… I mean it’s not exclusive
really raw foods, It’s not a sin to cook especially some of these vegetables or to even remove the lectins, it’s really important to do that. It just evolves and you learn and then, I thought that regular
continuous (mumbles) was so good, I mean it was the best diet out there so you should do it continuously. My body taught me otherwise, and I realized it had to be cyclical. And then integration
of the partial fasting I think it’s the newest
revelation and really, I think it’s such a magnificent strategy to optimize your health,
for people like us who really want to live as long as we can. At least 200 with having all
of our functioning intact and not being frail, and having really good cognitive function, I think these are the
strategies you’ve got to do. in addition to the one
thing that I did talk about on the stage which is
my book for next spring which I’ll probably be
back on to discuss when we, there’s a lot of details, it is EMF. Because EMF, the biggest issue there and I won’t go into details ’cause we really wanted to
finish this conversation on the fasting, but is another
source of oxidative stress. It’s a massive source and it’s one that’s surprisingly almost
universally overlooked by almost every researcher. You can review the studies
and they all talk about it but no one is talking
about the oxidative stress, the peroxy nitrate, the
carbonate free radicals. They’re just ignoring it. I’m gonna be interviewing David Sinclair in about two or three weeks and I’m gonna definitely have
that discussion with him. But I bet he’s not aware of it. It’s not that he’s foolish or anything, he just doesn’t know but it’s a big issue. You can increase any deal
you want but you’ve got to, before you remediate the damages, we all know that prevention is better. So you don’t want to have
the damage to begin with. – [Dave] I remember going back a long time in Mountain View, California at the, I think it was called Red Rock Coffee, I don’t know if it’s still there. I sat down with the guy
who held the first patent on 802.11b, the first Wi-Fi patent. At the time he already
was a senior researcher, had been earned been working on this stuff for 20 plus years and
he said I’m retired now but I’m taking the
million-dollar test equipment that we had used in the lab to look at what these Wi-Fi signals were doing and I turned it around
and I pointed at humans. And he opened up his
laptop and he said look at all the signals coming off of people, like isn’t this amazing? I know there’s health aid in here, I think I’m gonna be
able to predict something and I’ve lost touch with
him a long time ago. I wish I’d recalled his name
but this was 20 plus years ago. And that always stuck in my mind, is like there’s something going on here and then you read
Electromagnetism in Life, Robert C, Becker’s books and
all and you realize okay, there’s something going on here. There’s a book from 1984, the head of the Karolinska Institute, one of the top ten hospitals
out there wrote a book about the electricity in the
body and he wouldn’t publish it until he retired. He’s like oh they’re gonna
try and take my license for writing this and it’s
800 pages of craziness. So I believe that there’s something here and it feels like your book may be one of the big factors
in, this your next book, in making people just pay attention to it because it’s absurd to
think it doesn’t matter. This is a long lead-up but
here’s my big question for you. Do you think it’s possible
that we could build a communications infrastructure that used the right type of EMF, that it was actually biologically
neutral or even beneficial for life instead of harmful? – [Joseph] I’m pretty confident there is, it’s just there’s no interest in this because of the perversion
of the focus of the research from the wireless industry. It is absolutely in the
exact opposite direction but the first step is
really implementing things that we did early on. I mean when I started, a networking computer at our offices, I think it’s the early
90s, we ran ethernet cable. Wireless didn’t exist. All our computers internally
were by ethernet cable and we could do that
in our home easily so– – [Dave] I do. – [Joseph] Yeah, you don’t
need wireless in your home so that’s a big part of it. The challenge, more extensive challenge especially with the introduction of 5G and the satellites distribution of that which is gonna make it
essentially available over the entire planet, and wireless frequencies
don’t just affects humans, they affect every form
of life on the planet. Animals, insects, birds,
bees, you name it, they’re affected by. So it’s not just humans
that are gonna be impaired, it’s we’re really
destroying our environment. So I don’t know, there
probably are some ways to remediate it but it would require some really bright scientists to understand it. Certainly part of the
damage is due to the pulsing of the signal and the frequency, so yeah, it’s not gonna be done though. I mean Big Pharma and
vaccines are a big issue but boy I’ll tell you,
wireless is gonna drop way after those things do. – [Dave] Maybe I’m hopeful about it but I think there’s a $500 billion plus business opportunity. The networking company that
comes out with hard science that says use this networking protocol, and people don’t have
this oxidative stress there will be governments
in small countries probably like Norway
or someone will start, or Finland or Sweden. And they’re just gonna
say you aren’t allowed to use this stuff that’s like smoking and maybe there will be
an insane amount of money, insane enough amount of money
that a very large company is gonna say, if we can
be the one to do this, all the other guys are gonna
have to get our patents. So come on engineering friends listening, I know there’s a lot of you out there, somebody get on this. – [Joseph] Yeah, well there’s
certainly enough income in it because the tobacco
industry, pharma industry and wireless are all about the same role, over a trillion dollars
of revenues every year. So the revenues are there. And you’re more of an
electrical or electronic expert than I am certainly but I would think that the wireless signal is one issue, but the more challenging
one is going to be the cellphone radiation which is a different structure
completely I believe. Because I think, (mumbles) wireless isn’t that much of a challenge ’cause you can obviously get rid of it. I think that’s one of the
biggest crimes we have is the introduction of wireless
radiation in the classrooms. I mean it is, of any population
that is at most at risk for this damage from this it is our kids. It’s thinner skulls, their brains have more
concentrations of water, higher concentrations so they absorb this radiation more easily. They’re in the developmental
stages of their brain so they’re more susceptible to the damage, and we are just decimating our youth. Even if we have our home as a safe haven, we send them to schools where they’re getting
bombarded with wireless. I mean it is worse. There’s not a micro doubt in my mind. It is worse, the situation in classrooms end up every kid in that
classroom was smoking. We would just scream in horror
if that was to happen now. – [Dave] Yeah, people just, they also, you look at the typical school lunch and it goes deep-fried god knows what, and I’ll tell you, the science
is really clear on that. Eating fried stuff creates 24 hours of oxidative stress on the
body and smoking cigarette is only about 48 hours. So the fact that people aren’t up in arms over the fact that we’re
feeding garbage to our kids, that seems like a low-hanging
fruit even compared to putting an ethernet jack on the desk which is what we do in my house. – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah,
I couldn’t agree more. That, you nailed it. To me the worst food you could
possibly eat is a damaged oil which is typically processed,
industrially processed and then heated. You have these cyclic
aldehydes and transfats. I mean these bad fats get
embedded in your cell membranes. The consequences are much
longer than having sugar which is like short-term typically and it may be increases your
insulin level but it’s gone. It doesn’t stick in your cell
membranes for days or weeks. – [Dave] It’s just
interesting perspective when, we can talk about that and
there’s a lot of people listening right now. And I know a lot of you are saying I’m gonna go to the restaurant, but they have those really
good deep-fried brussel sprouts or I like the calamari or whatever. Here’s the deal, you can train
yourself to just look at that and have a little thing says not food. So if they set a wicker
placemat on the table, you wouldn’t want to eat it and if they set the fried calamari down. It’s not that oh I really want to eat it but I’m a good person, I’m not going to. You can literally train yourself, like the interest isn’t there. I want to eat the stuff that tastes good and makes me feel good because
it’s possible to do it. And that just reduces
pain in your life a lot versus walking around wanting
the fried stuff all the time. You just realize once you
don’t ever eat it at all for a while, you have a
bite of it, it tastes bad. It’s not even as good
as you thought it was. – [Joseph] Yeah, there could
be that element but to me, once you’re convicted like we both are and you know that in a molecular basis what it’s doing your
body your aversion to it is beyond strong. It’s like far worse than electric shock. And so much so that you when
you see someone eating it, you almost want to scream
and warn them the damage and the danger they’re
doing to their body. But obviously you have
to be socially collect. I mean if it’s a stranger
it’s not a big issue, you can’t be screaming. But if it’s someone you know and care for, you just oh, I just get
so frustrated with them seeing this happen. – [Joseph] Yeah, I just realized I’m just gonna keep doing what I do and I only talk about it now when people ask ’cause otherwise– – [Joseph] Yeah, that’s
probably the safest strategy but back to the EMF, my
book’s not gonna be out until next spring so I hate
to talk about something, inform people of the danger without giving them some resource. And before my book is published,
the best resource out there I’m pretty convinced is the Non-Tinfoil Hat Guide to EMF. It’s written by, did you interview Nick? – [Dave] I haven’t, I’ve
chatted with him a few times. – [Joseph] Okay, yeah, Nicholas Pineault. He’s a good guy, kinda hard to understand ’cause French got that
thick French-Canadian accent but his books and his work is really good. He really covers it very well and it’s written in a very
easy to understand language. ‘Cause he’ll walk you step by step on the strategies you need to remediate and protect yourself and your family. – [Dave] If you’re listening to this thing and you’re saying, oh my
God, I’m so overwhelmed, these guys are doing all this crazy stuff. Just keep in mind our job
is to find all the things and stack rank them in order of importance on what they’re doing to your health, and then figure out the
strategies that are least annoying to prevent the harm or to cause more good. That’s just a very basic
summary of the thinking process that’s gone through in
your 20, 30, 40, 50 years of just careful analysis
because there are some things that you could do that might cost $100,000 and take two years to
do that might give you a little bit of a benefit. But a) no one’s gonna do it, because of the time and
the money and all that. So knowing that it’s possible is cool but knowing why that might work and what could you do in
five minutes and two bucks that gets you a little
bit of the way there, that’s the stuff that I
feel motivated to share. And on the EMF stuff, I am damn grateful to have a cell phone. It is really useful and
it has changed the world, changed my life and I wouldn’t
want to change having one. But I would like to have
all those amazing benefits with the least possible harm and maybe even with some benefits. That’s the direction and that’s
the way to think about it, so don’t let perfectionism
and fear come into your mind from hearing what we’re talking about. This is playful curiosity
and a desire to all this. And here’s my question for you, Joe. Do you do everything that we
talk about now consistently? – [Joseph] Well, nothing’s
100% but pretty close to it. – [Dave] Yeah, you’re pretty close but you’re still not, yeah. – [Joseph] Like having french fries? No, I never have french fry. That would be like
suicide for me. (laughs) – [Dave] Yeah and you know
you wouldn’t die if you ate it but you know you’d be a
little bit closer to dying. And so to consciously
take a choice you’re like there’s a better one,
especially when you don’t have a fear of starvation, and it’s funny. – And I don’t think it’s dysorexia. People may think dysorexic or the equivalent for
lifestyle, of orthorexia but I don’t think so. – [Dave] No, and it’s also, orthorexia is, there’s a fear involved
and there’s a like a phobia where you say I can’t do it. And here I’m choosing not to do it because I don’t like
how I feel when I do it and that’s a very different
awareness perspective. And also I can recall a few
times in the past 10 years when I actually put
the phone up to my head when it was on and it
was usually for me to say hold on a second, I’m getting my headset. But people probably saw me
at the Biohacking Conference walking around with a phone up to my head. I’m gonna just disclose a trick that I do which I probably shouldn’t. I put the phone in airplane
mode and I stick it up to my head so people
think I’m on the phone, so I can actually get from
one end of the conference to the other so I can be onstage on time. Otherwise everyone wants to stop me and tell me about all the cool stuff. So that’s just a signal
that hey, I’m not available but I’m not cooking my head
’cause I don’t want the phone, I’ve never had a conversation
with the phone by my head in the last, I gotta say
probably last 10 plus years because it’s just not worth it. But I also spent 10 years
driving with the phone up to my head because we did it back then because I didn’t know any better. But bottom line is
perfection is not required. Don’t be afraid if you do something wrong but next time just work
on doing it better. So a little bit of preaching there but I don’t want to create fear. – [Joseph] No, no, that’s a good frame. I appreciate you sharing that Dave. – [Dave] Because I’ve
fallen into that trap where like we live in a
blue lit microwaved world and it’s the end of the world. You get this apocalyptic sort
of hopeless sort of thing. That’s toxic, man. Just that mindset alone raises
cortisol and it’s just– – [Joseph] No question. To emphasize the importance
that your body, a few things. So one is your body is
designed to stay healthy. If you give it the things it
wants, it needs and requires and avoid the things that are toxic to it, you have no other path. You just move towards health,
and away from disease. But part of that is this, conventional society is to
create that safe open haven at night especially in your bedroom so that you can have this repair time, to recover from the damage
you’ve done to yourself during the daytime. – [Dave] Yeah, it just makes sense. That’s how to do it. All right, let’s talk about
one more big set of knowledge that you can share with listeners before we get to the end of the show. And that’s let’s compare
notes on lab testing. I’m working on my next
book, my anti-aging book comes out in September. – [Joseph] I’m looking
forward to reviewing that. My book after EMF will be
anti-aging but it will– – [Dave] Oh beautiful. – [Joseph] Won’t come on till 21 or 22 and it actually will probably
be three or four books ’cause it’s already
like 600 pages. (laughs) – [Dave] Yeah, it’s
amazing what’s out there and it’s like how do you
choose what’s worth it. Some things around water for instance. You could spend thousands
of dollars a month and get a 5% benefit. I’m like I’m not putting that in there, but there are other things that maybe people haven’t heard about. Like rats live 30% longer on that, pretty sure that that’s worth it. So maybe I’ll try that. All right, so lab tests, what are your, we’ll say top five or
seven recommended lab tests for people listening. So you’re listening, I haven’t
really quantified myself, what should I be paying attention to? – [Joseph] Well, there’s
no question of mind. The absolute number one
and I feel very proud if I can be so egotistical
for having catalyzed the interest in conventional
medicine about this, about 20 years ago was vitamin D. – [Dave] Yeah, you really did that. Yeah, I mean I don’t get that
credit for it but that’s fine. I’m just in it for the end
result but I was really the early adopter in
spreading that message. So vitamin D, now if it’s low, ideally it means you go
outside and get some exposure, means you don’t swallow a capsule. I haven’t swallowed a vitamin
D capsule in 10 years, over 10 years and my levels
are still 70 nanograms or 60 to 70. – [Dave] Man, you’ve got good genetics. I cannot keep my levels up from Sun without also taking supplements but I did some genetic
analysis that showed that I pretty much, I have white skin, I probably have the genes of a Pacific Islander or something. I need a lot of sun to get some vitamin D. – [Joseph] (laughing)
Well, it’s hard to get it where you’re at. When you’re in the lab,
I have the opportunity, I get to go outside of my home, ride my bike for about five minutes. I’m on the beach and
I’m walking for an hour doing my reading. So if you were in that environment, I think you would optimize
your vitamin D pretty rapidly. – [Dave] Yeah, if I was in
Florida, it’d be different. I try to do the same thing,
I just walk in a rainstorm. – [Joseph] Yeah, it’s not gonna work. Your latitude is too far north. So that would be the first one. Your blood sugar levels are
really important too and you– – [Dave] Before we go on from
D3 to get to the sugar one, what about vitamin A and vitamin K2? It seems like those are
synergistic, they work together. Do you test for all three or just D3? – [Joseph] Well, K2 is really important and it works synergistically
with vitamin D. In fact many of the side effects
or symptoms of deficiency are pretty similar and
certainly the benefits are really comparable. But K2 cannot be measured directly to the best of my knowledge. You can measure it indirectly
through osteocalcin levels but you can’t really measure K2. There’s no commercial assay
that I’m aware of for it. – [Dave] You’re right on that, yeah. – [Joseph] So vitamin
A or retinol is useful. I don’t bother with it
because if I just eat more of a paleo type diet
where I’m getting regular vitamin A sources, I have
raw grass-fed (mumbles) nearly every day, and I
don’t go out of my way. I mean if you’re taking homtamin to be even better like liver, I don’t tend to eat liver, I
don’t particularly care for it but I do, I don’t take that vitamin. I don’t typically screen for that. – [Dave] You don’t screen
for either one of them so just straight up D3 is
what you go over, all right. – [Joseph] Yeah, ’cause
that’s your biggest bang. I mean that is such a profoundly
crucial and vital nutrient and it’s just criminal not
to know what your level is. – [Dave] Okay, so number one is D3. Now what do you do for blood sugar? – [Joseph] Well, you can
measure that yourself easily and ideally like to get it below 90. Now, like ketones, the higher the better, well blood sugar the lower the better. Not necessarily I think
that probably the optimum for a blood sugar is
somewhere between 80 and 90, maybe mid 80s, maybe low
80s, somewhere around there. I mean it’s not that the 70s is terrible but it may not be optimal. – [Dave] But below 87 is what
the Life Extension Foundation has advocated for for at least 20 years as a fasting blood sugar. It’s $10 or $20 per meter, it’s very easy to get that number. So you recommend people test that? – [Joseph] Yeah, you
can get the bare contour I think it’s $7 and the
strips are like 25 cents and you might even get 10 free when you buy for seven bucks. I mean it’s basically free. As an extension of that you can do insulin and if you really are curious, you can get a book by the
now-deceased Joseph Kraft who wrote a book on diabetes. And in that book is a series
of diagrams and illustrations. It tells you, explains
how to do the analysis. You can do an oral glucose tolerance test where they give you a 70 gram glucose load and then sequentially measure your glucose and insulin levels
between like 30 minutes, one hour, two to three, four hours. And based on the rise and fall of that, you will be able to determine
if you’re insulin resistant because 85% of the population
is insulin resistant. So it would be nice to know. I mean it’s not imperative because if you were able
to generate ketones, you’re probably not insulin resistant. So you could just measure your ketones as an alternative of that just to determine if you’re
metabolically flexible, continue to be ’cause
you can go out the wagon and not be metabolically
flexible anymore, it’s possible. I like ferritin, I’d
recommended it for a long time to measure your iron levels. But one of the other cool
people I met at your event was Joe Cohen. I don’t know if you know
of him but he runs the– – [Dave] Yeah, I know him. – [Joseph] Self-decode or self-tact. So I was able to meet him. He sought me out specifically. He went to the event, your event to see me and he changed my mind on ferritin. And I actually had a just
a phone call with him for about an hour last weekend. I used to think it should be
below 40 nanograms per month, that’s the leader but I think, or similar to the levels of vitamin D which we didn’t say the optimum that should be over at least 40. It should not be lower than 40
if you get your number back. And ideally I think between
60 and 80 is the sweet spot for the vitamin D or one, 25 hydroxy D levels is the
actual name of the test. And there probably is
some benefit to measuring the active form of vitamin D too which is 125 dihydroxy D and I forget, there’s another name for
it, I just forgot the name. Bob Miller’s associate, Emily
Gibbler was just giving me some insights into that
recently, the value of measuring that I’d always discounted in the past but I’m gonna start looking at that. – [Dave] It turns out
there’s a bacterial thing that can happen, that affects your ability to create active vitamin D. There’s a real interesting
paper that came out about that last year saying
that there might be something going on in your microbiome or infectious that’s affecting, was called
VDR vitamin D receptors. So that could be why measuring
the active form is good and they found people with more bacteria had less activation of vitamin D, and found pretty strong correlation. What’s your D3 and is it
active would be really good. Get a ferritin test under 40. – [Joseph] That’s what I
thought until I talked to Joe. I was basing it on a number of things that typically people donate
their blood a few times a year tend to died less from
heart disease and cancer, and that may be one of the
reasons why postmenopausal women have less heart disease because they have their monthly menstrual cycle, then they dump a lot of the iron. But it may be that the
sweet spot for ferritin might be between 100, 150 and
based on that conversation we’ve reviewed a lot of studies. I haven’t had time to go
and independently review it because I’m just busy but
it might be between 100, 150 and I actually, I’ve started
eating red meat again as a result of that because heme iron is the best way to increase your ferritin because I had gotten
my ferritin down to 25 and I think that was too low. – [Dave] Yeah, it can be too low. You don’t want to be anemic. – [Joseph] No, well
it’s hard for me to tell because I have this beta
thalassemia which makes it virtually impossible
to diagnose the anemia because of the confusing impact it has on your red cell indices. Yeah, ’cause I am 100% every
single time blood tests anemic because of the thalassemia,
there’s no way around it. Well that’s not true, some of
the gene editing techniques from Cast9 could do it but
then I might be a candidate for that sometime in the
future, I don’t know. – [Dave] All right, so
give me two more tests. We got ferritin, insulin,
blood sugar and D3, what else? – [Joseph] Well, as an
extension, the ferritin you could you measure GGT. That’s a liver enzyme,
gamma gluten meal peptidase and ideally in men it
should be about 15 or 16. In women it should be below 10 and if you have severe oxidative stress, that will go up. – [Dave] Mm-hmm, okay, so (mumbles). I’m surprised I thyroid’s not in here for the average person. – [Joseph] I mean you could test for it but it gets to be complex
and how people understand and debug it and it’s like
a whole two or three podcast by itself to explain. – [Dave] Yeah, understanding
T3, our T3 in D4. – [Joseph] It’s not
something I monitor on myself all the time, because– – [Dave] You said it is or it’s not? – [Joseph] It’s not, I like never– – [Dave] Yeah, for daily
monitoring and I’m just thinking a lot of people haven’t
gone into the daily or weekly or monthly sort of thing. But subclinical hypothyroidism
is just so common and even a very slight
decline in thyroid as you age increases all cause mortality especially on the cardiovascular front. So I almost feel like if you’re over 60 you should be taking a quarter
grain of natural thyroid because you’ll probably live longer. – [Joseph] Well, I wouldn’t go that far. I’m over 60 and I don’t
take a quarter gram but– – [Dave] Yeah, but you’re
also exceptionally healthy for your age too. – [Joseph] I would take iodine,
I do take iodine every day. – [Dave] Iodine and
tyrosine might be enough by themselves, right? – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah, and not
having any autoimmune issues, addressing that and
part of it is vitamin D. But I think you’re right. Anyway TSH would be a
simple thyroid screen if you want to keep the cost low. And the traditional standards for normal would be above five. The higher the TSH, it’s a
negative feedback loop hormone. So the higher it is the
worse your hypothyroidism. But that’s probably the wrong number. It’s probably like 1.5. Anything above 1.5 is
potentially problematic. – [Dave] Agreed. – [Joseph] Yeah, so that would
be a good one to screen for. it I mean you could do a cam panel profile as just a general screen and CBC. I do those every month
just to make sure that I’m, ’cause I test my blood
every month, every month. Here’s one I think everyone
should look at it, I neglected would be it’s a general
screen for inflammation which is a high sensitivity CRP. – [Dave] Yes, that’s on
my short list for sure. – [Joseph] Yeah, and
ideally the lower the better on that one and ideally you’d
like to get it down to 0.2. Now if you’ve got a cold or a cough or you’re recovering from some– – [Dave] Or you just lifted. – [Joseph] Yeah, or you
just lifted it I will go up. That’s another good point, thanks for that ’cause I learned that lesson. Your insulin level,
well everything goes up. Do your blood work before your
exercise, not after, yeah. – [Dave] In fact I had this weird thing, this is going back a while. And I was really
experimenting cold therapy. And I had kept my HSC RP
levels exceptionally low for the last couple of
years and before that. And then I went to sleep with
some ice packs on accidentally and I got first degree ice
burns on 15% of my body. Two weeks later I did
my panels and my HSCRP was just through the roof
and it’s because I had pretty substantial systemic
inflammation from the ice. It was kind of scary until I
realized the correlation there. So yeah, if you have a one time
thing there, it’s a problem. I usually tell people if
you’re gonna do inflammation which is the underlying
cause of almost everything, even low vitamin D is going
to reflect an inflammation. So HSCRP is a top one for me
and I look at homocysteine which is a substantial
cause of inflammation for people as well. – [Joseph] It’s a little
more expensive to tests on a monthly basis. That’s one of the pricier ones actually. – [Dave] Yeah, I guess I should qualify. If you’re gonna do your
annual thing because yeah, a monthly homocysteine is expensive but if you’ve never had a
lab test you want to know if that’s a problem. – [Joseph] Absolutely,
I couldn’t agree more but just the monthlies
would not be homocysteine. – [Dave] It won’t change
that much monthly anyway, you do that twice a year. – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah. – [Dave] And then the
other one is LP PLA 2 which is expensive but
if anything you’re doing whether it’s lectins,
metals, lack of vitamin D3, excess calcium, it doesn’t matter, if you have damage to linear
arteries LP PLA 2 goes up ’cause it’s an enzyme that’s released from damage in the arteries. So I look at that as
one of those important but expensive tests. Thoughts on whether that’s worth doing, if you’ve never done any of that stuff. – [Joseph] I think it’s fine,
no problems with that at all. I mean it’s certainly better
than do a total cholesterol which is close to worthless. I mean it’s absolutely
close to total cholesterol. You can do ratios and stuff but, I’ve interviewed Malcolm
Kendrick for his new book and boy, he is just, I
mean it is not cholesterol. He described 10 patients to
me with cholesterols over 600 to 900 that were like
in their 60s or to 90s and had no evidence of
heart disease, none. – [Dave] There’s familial
hypercholesterolemia– – [Joseph] That’s bulimia,
which I thought was an indication for (mumbles)
but it’s not, absolutely not. – [Dave] Yeah, one of my good friends, I’ve worked with him a lot
on it and he’s gone around and some of the top experts in the field and privately most of the
physicians working on this will say we just don’t
know but it doesn’t appear that this is going to be harmful for you. And we do know people who live longer when they have higher total cholesterol and it’s correlated with longevity and they handle toxins better. So I kinda think it might be
a superpower if you have that but there’s probably some
cardiologists listening going David you’re a total
jerk ’cause I said that. I don’t know but having
gone really deep on that, I’m pretty sure that at
least in some of those cases, it’s completely not harmful. And if it is harmful you
should see it in your LP PLA 2 and your HSCRP. If it’s a problem show me the next step which is inflammation. – [Joseph] Yeah, and there may be these people’s justification
for their encouragement of the use of statins is that
they do provide some benefit but virtually, I’m absolutely certain that any benefit biologically
they provide is not related to lowering cholesterol,
it does other things. It activates the NRF2 pathway, I don’t know if you knew that. It increases nitric oxide, so
it does some beneficial things but there’s so much less
dangerous and more effective and certainly cost less,
less costly ways to do that than taking a statin drug. I mean that’s the last
thing you’d want to take. I don’t think there’s any indication ever to take a statin drug. And one out of four
adults over 40 in America are taking ’em. – [Dave] Sounds like a
good marketing deal to me. All right Dr. Mercola, I’ve
got one more question for you. It’s my new question on the show. You remember my last one probably, three most important piece of advice that was the basis for game changers. My new one is because my
next book on anti-aging. How long do you think you can live and how long do you want to live? – [Joseph] Well, I was
waiting for that question Dae because I’ve given it a lot of thought and you’ve been a real inspiration to me to motivate me in the right direction. But I’m pretty confident that
I’ll live to at least 100 but not just at least
100, in a specific way. To having basically, my hope and I believe it’s fully possible to
have all the function I have right now if not more. Both in mobility, lack of
pain, cognitive function and lack of frailty and muscle strength. So that’s my goal and the
primary goal to do that is because I believe pretty strongly that in the next 30 years or so, we’re going to have access to technologies which will bridge us to your goal of 180. And I’ve met some interesting individuals that give me great
confidence that this may be even much sooner than the next 30 years. – [Dave] It’s happening. – [Joseph] It could be the next few years. And I know you’ve done
your stem cell makeover and I’m sure that provided some benefits. I’m not a big fan of stem
cells for a number of reasons, because it’s DNA that
you’re putting in your body. The exosomes are much more
favorable though, more– – [Dave] But I’m talking about,
these are my own stem cells. – [Joseph] No, I get it, I get it. Yeah, if you’re gonna do a stem cells it should be autologous but then you still you’re draining your own stem cell stores. You’re either going in and basically and taking your adipose
tissue from your bone marrow and bone marrow is not
an unpainful procedure. So exosomes I like better
’cause there’s no DNA involved. But still I think there’s
levels that are beyond it and in order to magnitude– – [Dave] Oh yeah. – [Joseph] Yeah, so I mean, you know about the Horvath clock, the DNA methylation clock. So Horvath and another guy, actually I’m working with a guy now who’s pretty good friends
with Steve Horvath and thinks, and Horvath
thinks this guy’s got one of the best shots
at figuring this out. Because that’s probably the
best genetic or genetic marker that we have of how old you are is your DNA methylation clock. Better than telomere
length which is so flawed with inaccuracies, it’s ridiculous. So I think these strategies exist. We’re talking about, in 2012, the Nobel Prize was awarded to Yamanaka, are you familiar with that Nobel? – [Dave] I don’t remember the
guys name, what was it for? – [Joseph] It was a set of active, he found a gene set. There were activation factors that when they were implemented
and inserted into cells, they essentially reset the
biological clock to zero. – [Dave] Ooh, I gotta get me some of that. – [Joseph] Yeah, that’s
what I’m talking about. – [Dave] I’m blending that
into my coffee tomorrow. – [Joseph] No, no, this isn’t, a very sophisticated
gene editing technique. – [Dave] Of course, of course. – [Joseph] But one of the
researchers I’m working with is actually, it works out
of George Church’s lab who’s a professor of genetics at Harvard. And actually I think he’s
one of the co-inventors of the CRISPR class 9. – [Dave] I think so, yeah. – [Joseph] So using these
gene editing techniques to insert these activation factors into hematopoietic stem
cells to reset your stem cell back to aging zero. So even though you’re 70 years old, you can get stem cells reset down to zero. – [Dave] In fact I wrote about
this in my upcoming book. – [Joseph] Oh you did? – [Dave] The name was there and I mean you can already get ones, I’m just trying to remember. They were doing some sort of interesting, they were reversing adult stem cells back so they could do whatever
they wanted with them and turning them into NK cells. And then introducing those
to cause a rapid reduction in the age of your immune system. And it turns out you can
culture your own NK cells and do something kind of similar, and I’ve actually done that and I write that up in the book. So I took out my stem cells,
cultured them in a lab and put ’em back in. – [Joseph] Interesting,
well you mentioned a point that I didn’t appreciate until recently but your immune system
is enormously responsible for how long you’re going to live. And in fact it’s an impaired immune system that takes most elderly people out. We’re talking about the
90s, 100-year-old people. Usually they get an
infection and they’re healthy and just full of vitality
and they get an infection, they’re dead in like in two days. It’s because of some type of impairment in their immune system. It seems to be the major
reason that they’re taken out. – [Dave] It sucks because if
you’re gonna make it to 90 or 100 in good health, it means you didn’t have
an overactive immune system when you’re young because a
highly active immune system is gonna create a lot of tissue adhesions and a lot of essentially
cellular level scar tissue throughout the body that slows things down and makes you likely to die of a bunch of different amyloid plaque related things not just Alzheimer’s and
other kinds of plaques, or oh, sorry other kinds of amyloids. So if you have a load
and normal immune system you can live a long time, but then you get taken out by bacteria. If you have a high immune
system when you’re young, you get a much more, of the
different causes of aging they get made much worse. So you have to be able
to reverse that stuff but then when you’re old, how do you stimulate the immune system? And there’s some really cool
peptide things that I do that I think most old
people should be doing that I put in the book where
can you get the thymus gland of a 20-year-old into a 100-year-old? You can get pretty close
to it thought having to transplant a thymus gland, so that seems like a big deal to me. – [Joseph] I couldn’t agree more. Another issue I neglected to mention that’s partially related to this is, the removal of senescence cells. And I’m sure in your new book, there’s eight strategies that
most all anti-aging research, anti-aging researchers agree on and that is removal of
senescence cells is one of them. And there are some
senescence therapies now. James Kirkland out of Mayo Clinic is one of the primary
researchers and he just published the first human trial earlier this year. He used courses in the satyr nib but (mumbles) probably
works even better I think, but you got to use it either, you can either reject it or you can use the transmucosal route. So removal of senescence
cells, if you’re gonna do that, the caution is senescence
therapy is not something, you do a lot less
frequently than autophagy. Probably only once a month, you don’t want to do it
more than once a month. – [Dave] That is definitely something that I’m also writing about. Because there are cheap
ways to remove this and I mean (mumbles) is one
of the big ones but yeah, you do it too much, maybe
you don’t want to do that so we’re still in the
early days of figuring out the right timing and all that. I got to ask you this, this isn’t a normal part of my question at the end of the show
but you said only 100– – [Joseph] No, no, that was the bridge. – [Dave] Oh, 100 until
you get the new tech that’s gonna give you up. I believe that more, all right. – [Joseph] I’m hoping I
have the new tech before. I don’t know that I put a limit on and no it’s interesting,
there are in many animals that live hundreds of years old, I mean whales and (both
talk over each other). So there doesn’t appear
to be any biological limit or need to die. It is not some biological law. – [Dave] Yeah, it’s built into our species but I’ll build that right out. It’s okay to do that. – [Joseph] I think it’s
doable, I think you’re right, it is doable. So I mean I certainly
wouldn’t want to hang around being frail and demented. But I think it’s possible to at least, I think your 180 is rational. And certainly not as
out there as Diamandis’s 700 or 800, but even that
may not be irrational either. – [Dave] I love Peter
and I hope that we’re, I hope we’re hanging out
when we’re both in our 800s. I really hope he’s right and
I do put a little asterisk at least 180. So that’s my four. – [Joseph] But I’ll tell you,
you know Peter better than I, I don’t know him at all really. – [Dave] He’s great. – [Joseph] Of anyone who’s
got the strategy to do it I think it’s you and not him, I really do. I think you’re more tied
in to what’s going to do it than Peter is but I could be wrong. I mean he’s got Craig Venter relationship, he does the human
longevity but I’ve never, if he does have the strategies, I’ve never heard him
discuss it like you do. – [Dave] Peter, he’s a dear friend and I just love being around
him ’cause his energy. His true great love is space. He’s part alien and he
just wants to go home in the best possible
sense I’m saying that. And so, he also cares
a lot about longevity but man, when you put one one thing where the thing that
makes his eyes sparkle, it’s space and discovery and science and this is one of the many
buckets that he plays in. – [Joseph] Yeah, but he doesn’t
have it nailed on like you until he gets your strategies and I think you’re really
on top of this field. He’s not going to get there ’cause you just don’t
do this by wanting to. This is not a (mumbles). You have to be pragmatic and
implement these strategies or it’s not gonna work. And that’s why I wrote Fat for Fuel, it’s a real keto fasting and the EMF book because in my view those are
the foundational strategies that are absolutely prerequisite
for you to get the base to do the next step. – [Dave] Yeah, you gotta dial those in. I agree with you and I think
there’s the least known about EMFs right now. I know that there are risks and I know some of the mitigation factors but we’re gonna know a lot
more because even though, and the industry doesn’t really
want us to talk about that. There’s enough people doing research that isn’t paid for by
industry all over the planet. Look, it either is or it
isn’t, just like tobacco, just like asbestos and here’s the deal, there are benefits to asbestos. There really are, it doesn’t catch on fire for one thing, right? So you can use it safely in some locations and it has to be encapsulated
but you have to know the risk and you have to choose a risk reward. And if you deny that
there’s a risk to anything, and it doesn’t matter what it is then you’ve become religious
instead of scientific. So let’s figure it out
and continue to be curious on every front, on everything and maybe we’ll learn something
we didn’t know 20 years ago. That’s the progress of
science in every discipline, is based on curiosity. – [Joseph] Couldn’t agree more. – [Dave] All right Dr. Mercola, thank you for being on two
episodes of Bulletproof Radio. It’s always fascinating. I love getting to hang
out in person like we did at the conference and there’s just, there’s so much cool stuff to learn and thanks for your kind words. – [Joseph] Yeah, yeah,
yeah, absolutely yeah. And I look forward to
connecting later this year when I’ll be at Mindshare with you. – [Dave] Absolutely, talk with you soon. If you liked today’s
episode you know what to do. You should check out
Ketofast because Dr. Mercola knows what he’s talking about, and if you didn’t know that
beforehand now you know. Have a great day. (pulsing music)